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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

I saw a quote on FB that seems to relate to that idea:

"I don't need for you to punch a Nazi. I need for you to tell your uncle at the dinner table that his racist jokes aren't funny"

Most of us will rarely encounter full-regalia Nazis to punch - but many or most of us encounter casual racists frequently. That's where the average Joe and Jane can make a difference.

Antifa is a bit more than just punching Nazis. Your "average Joe and Jane" can make a difference without necessarily coming even near one. There's legal support, medical support, media, etc etc
 
cloudflare has released a statement about why they kicked the Daily Stormer and what that means. Should be read in full by anyone interested in how the internet works, especially if they thought I was exaggerating.

cloudflare said:
Someone on our team asked after I announced we were going to terminate the Daily Stormer: "Is this the day the Internet dies?" He was half joking, but only half.
 
Like I said before, the reason Antifa scares me more than the Nazis do is that Nazis don't seem intent on physically harming Jews qua Jews.


Ha ha... good one
.

Also, by my count, this marks the third time in this thread someone has proclaimed left wing extremism more dangerous than right wing extremism based on "feelings".

The requested data to factually support such an assertion remains in a state of nonexistence.
 
You rarely hear about similar stories when communists take over and begin the purges of counter-revolutionaries. To hell with Nazis and to hell with communists.
Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Laos, Cambodia, China... White Russians, Gulags...
 
Do you think the Nazis and the counter protesters are equally bad?

ETA: So far, we have at least two outed Nazi-sympathizers posting in this thread.

Not all the counter-protesters were Antifa but Antifa are no better than Nazis.
 
Yeah, a couple in this thread have apparently eagerly signed on.

This. 100% this.
Every right winger who showed up did so with a very specific intent to endorse Naziism, to endors White Supremacism, to endorse the KKK.

Sceptik Tank, Emily's Cat, TBD, Sunmaster. When you get an invitation by White Supremacists, and they ask you to unite with Nazis and KKK - do you heed the invitation, thinking this is what a good person will do?

This is a Yes/No question. Please don't wiggle.

Of course you are. You're a "free speech" advocate. Maybe a neo free speech advocate.

What total B.S.
I get the feeling you secretly support the Nazis/Klan because you see them as "fihgitng the Communist" Shades of the Weimar Republic.

He is apparently joining in their parades so he is worried about being mistaken for a nazi. That seems a common reaction after these protests.

Unsurprisingly, Sunmaster and The Big Dog were unable to give the easy short answer "No".
I thinkj we must take their silence as a tacit "Yes, marching with Nazis and KKK is what fine people do" - just as the President believes.

Wow.He is not even hiding his support of the Neo Nazis now.

And the Neo Nazis are such non violent people.

A Trump supporter sides with the Nazis. What a surprise.

Do you think the Nazis and the counter protesters are equally bad?

ETA: So far, we have at least two outed Nazi-sympathizers posting in this thread.


Sick. Straight out of 1984. Unabashed finger-pointing, Nazi Nazi!!!

You people sound so gawdamn silly it's disturbing. Calling names and filthy accusations to posters who have been here debating with you for years. Nazi Nazi! What is this fifth grade?

You want to know what the problem is with the left's message, Travis (referring to his thread)? Here ya go. Hateful, emotionally driven name calling. This is some scary stuff people. You're acting like children.
 
Sick. Straight out of 1984. Unabashed finger-pointing, Nazi Nazi!!!

You people sound so gawdamn silly it's disturbing. Calling names and filthy accusations to posters who have been here debating with you for years. Nazi Nazi! What is this fifth grade?

You want to know what the problem is with the left's message, Travis (referring to his thread)? Here ya go. Hateful, emotionally driven name calling. This is some scary stuff people. You're acting like children.

Quit your pathetic whining.
 
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cloudflare has released a statement about why they kicked the Daily Stormer and what that means. Should be read in full by anyone interested in how the internet works, especially if they thought I was exaggerating.

The internet had died already.

Anti-terror police shutting down 1,000 ISIS websites and social media accounts every WEEK
Many are used to recruit young people come and fight for the so-called Islamic State in Syria and Iraq
 
Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Laos, Cambodia, China... White Russians, Gulags...

My point is that Nazism doesn't have a monopoly on "nice people" that enable totalitarianism. Antifa's communists are the other side of that coin.
 
Well, to be fair, it wouldn't really be very interesting to say anything in that case because the vast majority would be saying it, and I (and I suspect TBD) would agree with the vast majority. Parroting the majority position in a kind of "me-too" circle jerk of virtue signaling is rather boring IMHO.

TBD claimed that if the Nazis did X, he would respond with Y.

Well, the Nazis did way worse than X, and not only did he not respond with Y, he didn't respond at all. As a matter of fact, I've yet to see a post in this thread in which he's been critical of the Nazis at all. He saves all his criticism for the people opposing the Nazis.

Therefore, his claim that he would be equally critical of both sides is proven false.

Now I understand how sensitive modern conservatives are about having certain labels applied to them (say what you will about the conservatives of the last century, but at least they had the balls to own their racism and bigotry), and the last thing I want to do is offend someone's delicate sensibilities, but you have to understand that when someone goes out of their way to attack people who oppose Nazis, it makes it pretty difficut for the rest of us to not connect those dots.
 
Tribal instincts cut both ways. When we identify a group that is uniformly reviled, has no redeeming value, we need to keep a very clean shop so to speak.
 
Sick. Straight out of 1984. Unabashed finger-pointing, Nazi Nazi!!!

You people sound so gawdamn silly it's disturbing. Calling names and filthy accusations to posters who have been here debating with you for years. Nazi Nazi! What is this fifth grade?

You want to know what the problem is with the left's message, Travis (referring to his thread)? Here ya go. Hateful, emotionally driven name calling. This is some scary stuff people. You're acting like children.

And here I thought actual Nazis driving cars into crowds of people and committing murder was what was scary. Turns out I was wrong. It's actually people on a message board being call mean names that's scary.

Thanks for setting us straight and being the voice of reason.
 
Not all the counter-protesters were Antifa but Antifa are no better than Nazis.

So the anti-fascists, who's raison-d'étre is to stop fascism are as bad as the fascists? This makes sense to you somehow?

If the Nazis disappeared, the anti-fascists would too. If the anti-fascists disappeared, nobody would stand up to the Nazis.
 
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Sick. Straight out of 1984. Unabashed finger-pointing, Nazi Nazi!!!

You people sound so gawdamn silly it's disturbing. Calling names and filthy accusations to posters who have been here debating with you for years. Nazi Nazi! What is this fifth grade?

You want to know what the problem is with the left's message, Travis (referring to his thread)? Here ya go. Hateful, emotionally driven name calling. This is some scary stuff people. You're acting like children.

Yeah, we're the hateful ones. It's not like Nazis killed people in US streets last weekend. It's actually the left that's bad, right?
 
actually I am advocating for free expression and free speech regardless of the content of the speech.

Let that sink in for a minute.

I suspect that you really aren't. Not if you are thinking it through. Sure, your statement sounds so big and pure: "I'm for freedom of expression, freedom of speech no matter what!" It is what a Red Blooded, True American would say. But do think about it if you haven't yet:

There is of course the classical question: Do you support freedom to shout fire in a crowded theater? Really? Or, in common with the Supreme Court, I bet you are okay with there being some limitation of freedom of speech in cases where it would represent an imminent danger.

Do you support freedom for a company to lie about its products to their consumers? Freedom of a company to lie about their finances to their stock holders? Freedom of a pharmaceutical firm to lie about the safety or efficacy of its drugs? Is that what you support? Or are you now going to claim this is "commercial" speech and you only meant political speech?

How about freedom of speech by a soldier in the army to harangue other soldiers into becoming anarchists? Or Nazis? Or (see below) to go AWOL?

Or (and I agree this is trickier) freedom of speech for a band of USA citizens to praise Hitler during World War 2?

How abut freedom of speech to urge others into committing a crime? Perhaps an assault or arson on your own family by a mob surrounding your house. Are you willing to go that far with your ideals?

Wouldn't a true freedom loving person approve of free speech in the examples I gave? Yet it turns out there are serious problems with each. Serious problems proven by history. And recognized by the courts ("The Constitution is not a suicide pact."). And a recognition that one person's freedom of speech may impact another person's freedoms. Which is why even the most free society imposes some government limits on "freedom of speech." And as repeatedly pointed out by others, "freedom of speech" relates to government restrictions, not to individuals. No one is forced to rent out their hall for a Nazi rally if they don't like Nazis.

Ironically, even though I am Jewish I fully agree with you that Nazis and the KKK have a right to freedom of speech as far as government regulations go. I've donated money to the ACLU when they lost other support because they too feel that freedom of speech applies to Nazis and the KKK. I continue to believe this and support it. Yet it is crucial to also remember that the Nazis are cynically using the freedoms of this country to undermine those very freedoms. It is the price we pay, but it means that their freedom of speech makes it even more important to organize against the Nazis and their evil soul mates, to educate others, to embarrass them at every opportunity, to mock them, and to denounce them at every opportunity, and to stand up against them with counter demonstrations whenever they rally their low life supporters. Nazis can say what they want- but it doesn't mean I have to agree or listen quietly, or not make as difficult as I legally can for them to convince others with their dogma. One can recognize that a pack of wild dogs has a right to the freedom of the African veldt, but that doesn't mean that one is obligated to help them (or even allow them) to dine on a bus load of children on safari.

Finally one must remember that there are legitimate limits to freedom of speech even in terms of government laws, as per the examples I cited above and which have been found to be constitutional by USA courts. The Nazis do not have a right of freedom of speech to directly threaten others. The Nazis do not have a right of freedom of speech under circumstances that present a clear and imminent danger to the people around them. Etc. They are wild dogs. Rabid dogs. Watch them closely! And don't minimize their risk to all of us!
 
I suspect that you really aren't. Not if you are thinking it through. Sure, your statement sounds so big and pure: "I'm for freedom of expression, freedom of speech no matter what!" It is what a Red Blooded, True American would say. But do think about it if you haven't yet:

There is of course the classical question: Do you support freedom to shout fire in a crowded theater? Really? Or, in common with the Supreme Court, I bet you are okay with there being some limitation of freedom of speech in cases where it would represent an imminent danger.

Do you support freedom for a company to lie about its products to their consumers? Freedom of a company to lie about their finances to their stock holders? Freedom of a pharmaceutical firm to lie about the safety or efficacy of its drugs? Is that what you support? Or are you now going to claim this is "commercial" speech and you only meant political speech?

How about freedom of speech by a soldier in the army to harangue other soldiers into becoming anarchists? Or Nazis? Or (see below) to go AWOL?

Or (and I agree this is trickier) freedom of speech for a band of USA citizens to praise Hitler during World War 2?

How abut freedom of speech to urge others into committing a crime? Perhaps an assault or arson on your own family by a mob surrounding your house. Are you willing to go that far with your ideals?

Wouldn't a true freedom loving person approve of free speech in the examples I gave? Yet it turns out there are serious problems with each. Serious problems proven by history. And recognized by the courts ("The Constitution is not a suicide pact."). And a recognition that one person's freedom of speech may impact another person's freedoms. Which is why even the most free society imposes some government limits on "freedom of speech." And as repeatedly pointed out by others, "freedom of speech" relates to government restrictions, not to individuals. No one is forced to rent out their hall for a Nazi rally if they don't like Nazis.

Ironically, even though I am Jewish I fully agree with you that Nazis and the KKK have a right to freedom of speech as far as government regulations go. I've donated money to the ACLU when they lost other support because they too feel that freedom of speech applies to Nazis and the KKK. I continue to believe this and support it. Yet it is crucial to also remember that the Nazis are cynically using the freedoms of this country to undermine those very freedoms. It is the price we pay, but it means that their freedom of speech makes it even more important to organize against the Nazis and their evil soul mates, to educate others, to embarrass them at every opportunity, to mock them, and to denounce them at every opportunity, and to stand up against them with counter demonstrations whenever they rally their low life supporters. Nazis can say what they want- but it doesn't mean I have to agree or listen quietly, or not make as difficult as I legally can for them to convince others with their dogma. One can recognize that a pack of wild dogs has a right to the freedom of the African veldt, but that doesn't mean that one is obligated to help them (or even allow them) to dine on a bus load of children on safari.

Finally one must remember that there are legitimate limits to freedom of speech even in terms of government laws, as per the examples I cited above and which have been found to be constitutional by USA courts. The Nazis do not have a right of freedom of speech to directly threaten others. The Nazis do not have a right of freedom of speech under circumstances that present a clear and imminent danger to the people around them. Etc. They are wild dogs. Rabid dogs. Watch them closely! And don't minimize their risk to all of us!

Yes, I support it in all those cases. Though I did skim the list.
 
And here I thought actual Nazis driving cars into crowds of people and committing murder was what was scary. Turns out I was wrong. It's actually people on a message board being call mean names that's scary.

Thanks for setting us straight and being the voice of reason.

We've seen this before. Although it is usually the SJWs making the "don't say mean things" case. It usually goes like this:

And here I thought Islamic terrorists driving cars into crowds of people and committing murder was what was scary. Turns out I was wrong. It's actually people on a message board being "Islamophobic" that's scary.
 

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