Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[sunmaster14]

Unsurprisingly, The Big Dog was unable to say something very easy:
People marching and uniting with Nazis and their violent tactics are against free speech and the freedom of expression.

I actually haven't seen Neo-Nazis or other white supremacists disrupt other peoples' rallies. I vaguely remember a BLM rally in Minnesota (or maybe Michigan) where some white counter-protesters were confronted and one of the counter-protesters shot two people, but other than that, I can't think of any. I would be grateful for cites to any examples.

 

[dudalb]

I actually haven't seen Neo-Nazis or other white supremacists disrupt other peoples' rallies. I vaguely remember a BLM rally in Minnesota (or maybe Michigan) where some white counter-protesters were confronted and one of the counter-protesters shot two people, but other than that, I can't think of any. I would be grateful for cites to any examples.

Wow.He is not even hiding his support of the Neo Nazis now.

And the Neo Nazis are such non violent people.

A Trump supporter sides with the Nazis. What a surprise.

 

[jimbob]

I didn't see that you had addressed me, since at best I only skim your posts. Also, if you had been reading my posts you would see that I fully agreed with phiwum that likely everybody at the rally was a white nationalist or supremacist in some fashion, and therefore not "fine," at least as to their ideology. I did find a Nazi flag in the images, and that should have been the tip-off to any confused moderates there that they should skedaddle.

I agree that the Nazi flag is beyond the pale, but how about all the rest of typical fascist paraphernalia?

Or the Nazi salutes and slogans?

 

[sunmaster14]

I agree that the Nazi flag is beyond the pale, but how about all the rest of typical fascist paraphernalia?

Or the Nazi salutes and slogans?

I agree generally. The only reservation I have is that we see things through a media filter. There were upwards of 500 people at the rally, and it is not clear to me that everybody there was doing the same thing, or seeing the same thing.

Jake Tapper recently tweeted that Antifa people physically attacked one of his colleagues because they didn't want him filming Antifa people. This is a common tactic for Antifa. Manipulating film coverage helps to create a false narrative. The Palestinians are masters of this technique in their war against Israel, and the mainstream media generally plays along.

 

[jimbob]

They were very unambiguous in their advertising of the rally:

You don't show up for that rally unless you're a white nationalist.

Basically this

 

[johnny karate]

I am simply echoing the positions taken by the ACLU.

And when you echo those positons, they become your own.

You argued that behaving inappropriately towards Nazis is wrong. Nazis who murdered someone. Those are the people about whom you’ve expressed concern that someone might have been behaving inappropriately towards.

I also believe that physically blocking access to the park is violent illegal and stupid, and be assured that if the Nazis did that to a permitted Antifa rally, i would take the same position.

No, if Nazis did it, you would say nothing. You’d be too busy regurgitating right wing talking points to attack the people on the other side.

 

[sunmaster14]

And when you echo those positons, they become your own.

You argued that behaving inappropriately towards Nazis is wrong. Nazis who murdered someone. Those are the people about whom you’ve expressed concern that someone might have been behaving inappropriately towards.



No, if Nazis did it, you would say nothing. You’d be too busy regurgitating right wing talking points to attack the people on the other side.

Well, to be fair, it wouldn't really be very interesting to say anything in that case because the vast majority would be saying it, and I (and I suspect TBD) would agree with the vast majority. Parroting the majority position in a kind of "me-too" circle jerk of virtue signaling is rather boring IMHO.

 

[caveman1917]

When I was in school, in the early 90s, there were a lot of neo-Nazi street gangs around my home town. In one of the was a guy who called himself "Neger Pierre" [Negro Pierre]. He was a black guy who allegedly had a mental handicap and who had been adopted into the skinhead gang as a "good negro". The rumor was that he had had himself sterilized in order to not spread his genes.

Me too. One of them, from my school, even shot and killed someone at a party.[*] Couple of months before that we (a handful of left-wing friends) had invited him to come watch American History X with us, since we had noticed him getting into the far-right. He interpreted it as positive propaganda for Nazis and there was nothing we could do to argue him out of that interpretation. If you ever actually bother with anti-fascism then you quickly learn what works and what doesn't on Nazis.

* note that this is Belgium and not the US, someone getting shot "never" happens. It's not like in the US where people get shot all the time.

 

[Scopedog]

You argued that behaving inappropriately towards Nazis is wrong. Nazis who murdered someone.

Did all the Nazis kill someone? Are all muslims to blame for the van attack in Spain?

 

[dudalb]

Did all the Nazis kill someone? Are all muslims to blame for the van attack in Spain?

Bad, Bad,Bad, comparasion.

 

[jimbob]

Me too. One of them, from my school, even shot and killed someone at a party. Couple of months before that we (a handful of left-wing friends) had invited him to come watch American History X with us, since we had noticed him getting into the far-right. He interpreted it as positive propaganda for Nazis and there was nothing we could do to argue him out of that interpretation. If you ever actually bother with anti-fascism then you quickly learn what works and what doesn't on Nazis.

It depends on the situation


https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

The son of the creator of Stormfront renounced white supremacy and racism - partly because he was not ostracised when his college associates found out about his previously strongly avowed views.

Another New College student learned about the conference and posted details on the forum, where gradually a new way of thinking had begun to emerge.

“Ostracizing Derek won’t accomplish anything,” one student wrote.

“We have a chance to be real activists and actually affect one of the leaders of white supremacy in America. This is not an exaggeration. It would be a victory for civil rights.”

Admittedly, that is a different situation to a violent march.

 

[BobTheCoward]

And when you echo those positons, they become your own.

You argued that behaving inappropriately towards Nazis is wrong. Nazis who murdered someone. Those are the people about whom you’ve expressed concern that someone might have been behaving inappropriately towards.



No, if Nazis did it, you would say nothing. You’d be too busy regurgitating right wing talking points to attack the people on the other side.

We should not behave in appropriately to them.

 

[crescent]

It depends on the situation

I saw a quote on FB that seems to relate to that idea:

"I don't need for you to punch a Nazi. I need for you to tell your uncle at the dinner table that his racist jokes aren't funny"

Most of us will rarely encounter full-regalia Nazis to punch - but many or most of us encounter casual racists frequently. That's where the average Joe and Jane can make a difference.

 

[The_Animus]

Photo of ‘Antifa’ man assaulting officer was doctored, analysis shows

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/photo-antifa-man-assaulting-officer-doctored-analysis-shows/

 

[ponderingturtle]

Here's another wrinkle to consider.

The same tactics being cheered today have been poison-pilling BLM protests for years. BLM tends to do things like vigils and marches. Then half a mile away a group which never coordinated with or offered themselves gets all the camera time with nonsense under the guise of "protecting black lives."

The nazi's seemed to be fairly uniformly in this. See their coming in from the wrong entrances intentionally.

 

[Scopedog]

https://twitter.com/erinscafe/status/898216191176482816

"Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than "politics." They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren't nice people? Resisters." - Naomi Shulman

You rarely hear about similar stories when communists take over and begin the purges of counter-revolutionaries. To hell with Nazis and to hell with communists.

 

[Oystein]

I didn't see that you had addressed me, since at best I only skim your posts. Also, if you had been reading my posts you would see that I fully agreed with phiwum that likely everybody at the rally was a white nationalist or supremacist in some fashion, and therefore not "fine," at least as to their ideology. I did find a Nazi flag in the images, and that should have been the tip-off to any confused moderates there that they should skedaddle.

Thanks.

I actually haven't seen Neo-Nazis or other white supremacists disrupt other peoples' rallies. I vaguely remember a BLM rally in Minnesota (or maybe Michigan) where some white counter-protesters were confronted and one of the counter-protesters shot two people, but other than that, I can't think of any. I would be grateful for cites to any examples.

You need not go any further than Charlottesville, where Nazis charged violently the counter-protestors who blocked them. At least their leaders boasted of this feat.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The nazi's seemed to be fairly uniformly in this. See their coming in from the wrong entrances intentionally.

No doubt. I say again that the far right puts the far left's discipline to shame, to my eternal frustration and dismay. Control the narrative, force public institutions into the midst of the quagmire and make them confront it.

ETA: I also point out again the massive failure of the law enforcement plan of action and response (at high levels).

 

[uke2se]

You rarely hear about similar stories when communists take over and begin the purges of counter-revolutionaries. To hell with Nazis and to hell with communists.

Do you think the Nazis and the counter protesters are equally bad?

ETA: So far, we have at least two outed Nazi-sympathizers posting in this thread.

 

[Cainkane1]

The KKK is southeastern but the White supremacists are usually from Ohio or northern Oregon. Although the KKK is more common in the southeast the biggest Klan group is in Ohio.