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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

The Big Dog said:
You might want to take up the real american nonsense with the person who brought it up in the first place.

But yeah, for the most part Antifa are anarchists and communists, particularly the violent Black bloc scum, like Professor Bikelock in Berkely.
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1. I believe that the people in antifa were supporting "Real American" principles in this context- Your post questioned the term "Real Americans." Why should I not respond to you in the manner I did?

2. "For the most part"? So you have done a poll or a scientific analysis? What are the actual numbers? And you refer to communists!? How 1950s! What exactly is a "communist" nowadays? Marxists? Socialists? Christian Communists? Others?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies
And none of them can be Real Americans, despite the breadth of their economic and political views? And all of them must be violent?

Just a note for accuracy: Eric Clanton's assault indeed occurred at a Pro-Trump rally in Berkeley, but Clanton previously taught at Diablo Valley College, not at UC Berkeley. He did not live in Berkeley. He was a lecturer, not a professor. But I understand the pleasure you must derive from using the terms Berkeley, Professor, and violent scum together in a sentence.
 
Giordano said:
1. From what I can discern there was a lot more violence, intentional and premeditated, on the part of the Nazis, KKK, and their sympathizers, than on the part of their opponents.
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I'm not sure how you discerned this. Is it because someone on the antics side was killed, or...? I think the vast majority of people who showed up on both sides were really there for one thing only - to physically attack those on the other side.

2. In contrast, one side, the Nazis, KKK, and their sympathizers, advocate evil, abhorrent, and disgusting ideas that run counter to and seek to overturn the very central principles of our country.
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There is no contrast, since antifa also seeks to overturn principle of this country. Free speech, for example.


3. Every time Trump read through his pro forma and obviously insincere statements saying that of course he was against Nazis and the KKK, it was even more obvious that his heart was not in it and he was speaking under duress, like a little kid hurried off by his ear to his neighbor's house to apologize for egging his door. Trump's true feelings were made only too clear by the contrast between his perfunctory manner and brief anti Nazi comments versus his repeated, lengthy, and emotional statements seeking to blame the counter-demonstrators as well as the white supremacists and to reiterate many of the white supremacists talking points. Many of the white supremacists understood this very well and were happy for the support.
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Not comment here, since I have not yet seen the video.

4. Finally- were there really "good people" on the white supremacist side of the march?
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Doubtful. Or at least I don't think there were many there with good intentions. I do think there are good people who are opposed to the removal of the statue, but don't think they were matching on this particular day.

Giordano said:
Ah- I've been waiting for you to join this thread! No doubt your arguments will highlight the moral superiority of the white supremacists and help support Trump's position.
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He joined way back on page 26.
 
NoahFence said:
So go fight them. Report back your findings. Or crawl back under whatever pile of **** you people come from. Either or.
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What B.S.
So I have to be a Nazi or an Anarchist/Communist,and not be opposed to both extremes?
What Trump said yesterday was reprehensible and disgusting,but Communism is a philosophy that has been as destructive as Nazism.
You can argue that the extreme Right is more Dangerous then the extreme Left at the moment, and I would agree,but I cannot march with people who think that Stalin and Mao were great guys.
 
caveman1917 said:
You could argue that calling for the abolition of nations such as the USA would be inconsistent with being considered a "Real American". And such internationalism is common to both anarchists and marxists, who make up the bulk of antifa.
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Yes, I agree that abolition of all nations, including the USA, would be "anti-American" (although speaking semantically forming a single joint North and South American government would technically still be "American" as would an international government created by expansion of the USA and run under USA Constitutional guidelines). But not all forms of communism advocate abolishing individual nations, even though they often view that their political system should be instituted in all countries and would thereby lead to universal peace and cooperation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies#Dengism
 
Giordano said:
Yes, I agree that abolition of all nations, including the USA, would be "anti-American" (although speaking semantically forming a single joint North and South American government would technically still be "American" as would an international government created by expansion of the USA and run under USA Constitutional guidelines). But not all forms of communism advocate abolishing individual nations, even though they often view that their political system should be instituted in all countries and would thereby lead to universal peace and cooperation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies#Dengism
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How is it anti American if it ostensibly makes every fellow American better off?
 
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Giordano said:
2. "For the most part"? So you have done a poll or a scientific analysis? What are the actual numbers? And you refer to communists!? How 1950s! What exactly is a "communist" nowadays? Marxists? Socialists? Christian Communists? Others?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies
And none of them can be Real Americans, despite the breadth of their economic and political views? And all of them must be violent?

Just a note for accuracy: Eric Clanton's assault indeed occurred at a Pro-Trump rally in Berkeley, but Clanton previously taught at Diablo Valley College, not at UC Berkeley. He did not live in Berkeley. He was a lecturer, not a professor. But I understand the pleasure you must derive from using the terms Berkeley, Professor, and violent scum together in a sentence.
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As previously pointed out, most Anti-fa are not Americans living in America.

Your comment regarding Professor Bikelock in Berkeley is beyond odd.

Sure he used a bikelock to attack someone in Berkeley, but he was a lecturer....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Giordano said:
Yes, I agree that abolition of all nations, including the USA, would be "anti-American" (although speaking semantically forming a single joint North and South American government would technically still be "American" as would an international government created by expansion of the USA and run under USA Constitutional guidelines). But not all forms of communism advocate abolishing individual nations, even though they often view that their political system should be instituted in all countries and would thereby lead to universal peace and cooperation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies#Dengism
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And when you can show me a friggin' Dengist antifa participant I'll reconsider your point. Also, Dengism, in as much as it is a form of communism, does oppose nations.
 
caveman1917 said:
And when you can show me a friggin' Dengist antifa participant I'll reconsider your point. Also, Dengism, in as much as it is a form of communism, does oppose nations.
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Did you click on the link or just read the URL? The link was a comprehensive list of communist ideologies, not just Dengism.

Sure, I doubt that there was a single Dengist at the rally- but I can't prove it.:)
 
"How many men have you killed?"
"Not a man... fascists. 309."

Lyudmila Pavlichenko on freedom of speech for Nazis.

 
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caveman1917 said:
"How many men have you killed?"
"Not a man... fascists. 309."

Lyudmila Pavlichenko on freedom of speech for Nazis.

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Yes, you are against fascists/Nazis and so on.
So am I, but I am also against communists, anarchists and so on.

Yet, within a democracy, and yes - it is liberal, I accept the freedom of speech for all, so you speak and I speak against you, because we believe differently.
 
The Big Dog said:
As previously pointed out, most Anti-fa are not Americans living in America.
Your comment regarding Professor Bikelock in Berkeley is beyond odd.

Sure he used a bikelock to attack someone in Berkeley, but he was a lecturer....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Another TBD poll? Please provide the numbers so I can see it too!

Although many of the concepts behind Anti-fa began with the viewpoints of some groups in Europe and elsewhere, every citation I can find indicates that Anti-fa itself originated as an endogenous organization in the USA and is populated almost completely by Americans. They are Americans.

Okay, so you claim most of them are not Americans living in America? Most, not just a few? How on Earth do you know that? Where are they living, and do they get discount flights into the USA when they seek to counter a Nazi rally here? Do they get upgrades to business class? How dedicated and patriotic of them to do all that travel just to counter American fascism!

As I explained in my post, I wished to provide the precise facts as to Clanton for the sake of accuracy. If accuracy is not important to you, okay by me.
 
Giordano said:
Although many of the concepts behind Anti-fa began with the viewpoints of some groups in Europe and elsewhere, every citation I can find indicates that Anti-fa itself originated as an endogenous organization in the USA and is populated almost completely by Americans. They are Americans..
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work on your research skills then
 
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