Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

caveman1917 said:
Were you a wiser man, you would know what a cum hoc ergo propter hoc is.
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I know what it is. How is relevant to the conversation? Are you suggesting that the internet would've been developed under a monarchy? Or anarchy? Even if you're right, it wouldn't have developed when it did, so my point stands. Instead of trying to mirror my own words back at me, which I'm sure is very satisfying emotionally, how about you make a point?

I'm not overstating anything, quite the opposite.
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You're essentially calling them worthless monsters. How could that possibly be an understatement? Stop playing a role and start making some sense.

I don't care about your anecdotal "interactions"
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Then why are your views worth anything more?
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Their trajectory is just as bad. It's the public receptivity to the amount of punishment that's allowed and degree of blind trust that named suspects are pretty much guilty as sin that determines how 'bad' they are. Being ostracized from social standing, having your property seized or attacked without recourse, constant harassment, humiliation, shame, words of degradation, etc.

Racism, Social Justice, Communism, McCarthyism, Fascism, Anti-Fascism, they can all reach fever pitch. They all use the same tools and follow the same progression.
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Except the issue is that AntiFa doesn't have a central ideology that the rest of these things do, it simply can't gain the power to do what you claim because it has nothing to focus around other than getting rid of Fascism. Simply running on a Banner of "Get Rid of Trump and his Nazi's" isn't going to be enough for the left, and even if they did, and won, then when they did, they'd fall to pieces because they'd no longer have a target to galvanise them or a single ideology to hold them together.

The Reign of Terror is example #1. We're smashing the decadent and abusive monarchy! We're liberating the people to rule themselves...just as soon as we eliminate more notable scholars and common peasantry than any adolescent royal brat could have ever dreamed of.

Hey, Gracchus wants to give the land back to the people and this jerk keeps using the veto. Let's 'gently usher him off the dias' and get on with the voting. It's for justice, after all.

I'm aware enough to realize that power likely doesn't bargain with the open hand (disciplined nonviolent resistance) unless there's a fist present, too.

I guess the best way I can put it is that I don't want the fist to be in charge, either.
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It's funny that you bring this up because it's another classic example of what happens when you don't have a binding ideology beyond "getting rid of X."

With the French Revolution all the groups banned together to get rid of the Royals and Nobility, but once they had, and they had power themselves, they found that each group had a diverse number of Ideologies, and so they fell apart and started to attack each other. They were no longer the Revolutionaries, but rather a bunch of bickering individual groups.

In the same way, if AntiFa did win, and let's say that they managed a Tea Party and got into power. They'd fall apart and be unable to do anything because they'd be fighting and bickering with each other without the presence of the Alt-Right to keep them together. They would end up being as impotent as the current Republican Party is, if not worse.
 
Argumemnon said:
I know what it is.
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Apparently not.

How is relevant to the conversation?
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Because you were using it.

Are you suggesting that the internet would've been developed under a monarchy? Or anarchy? Even if you're right, it wouldn't have developed when it did, so my point stands.
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No your point really doesn't stand at all. Even if we accept your contention, then it's still just a modern form of this:

"But how can you be against feudalism when you're wearing rags made under feudalism? Ha, checkmate, you *********** peasant! I'm such a wise man!"

Instead of trying to mirror my own words back at me, which I'm sure is very satisfying emotionally, how about you make a point?
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I have.

Then why are your views worth anything more?
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One unpleasant interaction is a tragedy, 300k yearly kills is a statistic.
 
"Oh crap a social/political issue with a clear cut bad guy. How will I affect my too cool for school going against the grain rebel act now? Oh I've got it... a meaningless truism about how any ideology can lead to extremism. It's technically true but completely pointless and irrelevant to this discussion. Perfect!"
 
caveman1917 said:
One unpleasant interaction is a tragedy, 300k yearly kills is a statistic.
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You realise that 300K is like a 10th of the population of the US? This stat seems to have come from the same orifice your 40 Countries attacked by the US since the Korean War came from.
 
Travis said:
W...the police just stand by twiddling their fingers. Heck a non insignificant portion of them probably support them.

We can't count on the feds to stop them. Not with the very top of the federal government run by them now...
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You are conflating the federal (and state) agencies of the police with the federal (perhaps state) ofices of elected politicians - or the government job of upholding laws with the political job of executing and developing laws.

This conflation in effect amounts to calling for a political police. That is totalitarian masturbation.
 
Travis said:
What I'll say is this: at least someone is standing up to these fascist pricks. They gather and spread their genocidal ideology and the police just stand by twiddling their fingers. Heck a non insignificant portion of them probably support them.

We can't count on the feds to stop them. Not with the very top of the federal government run by them now. So who is going to stand up to these bullies? Or do we just lay down and hope they don't kill us when they go and kill the others?

I've been reading tons of books lately on the rise of fascism in Europe and my takeaway so far is that they put themselves in a position to murder tens of millions by everyone either not taking them seriously or being more worried about some phantom Communist boogeyman. No one stood up to them in any kind of forceful way until it was too late and I would really rather we not do the same thing here in America. If I'm being presented the choice of Nazis talking about race wars and a group of people that stand up to them that someone on the internet thinks are Stalinists (but otherwise don't seem to be advocating anything other than defending us from the fascists) well I'm definitely not picking the Nazis. And I'm also not just going to sit around doing nothing.
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Yep. Antifa are trying to stop a heinous ideology from spreading. They are meeting the neo-nazis on their own terms, so yeah, they are a little rough around the edges. But the neos are un-American, and even inhuman in a limited sense. Singing Kumbaya is not the move when confronting a white supremacist. And they are becoming openly accepted in a certain political party, and becoming more normalized by the day. I think it's significantly more acceptable for antifa to crawl down in the gutter with the neos. These two groups are not roughly equal but on opposite ends of the spectrum. One is textbook evil, and the other wants to reject that evil, By Any Means Necessary.
 
The Don said:
Fascism was successful in Germany and Italy (though it could be argued IMO that apart from a common global brand Mussolini and Hitler and their regimes weren't alike at all) because enough people actively wanted it, not that the huge silent majority remained silent.

IMO that's the situation in the U.S. at the moment. White supremacism is on the rise because a majority of white people in the United States are either active supporters of it or are sufficiently tolerant of it for it to become the guiding tenet of on of its two major political parties. :(
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Good post!
 
PhantomWolf said:
You realise that 300K is like a 10th of the population of the US? This stat seems to have come from the same orifice your 40 Countries attacked by the US since the Korean War came from.
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I think a little less than a 1/1000th, but your point is still clear.
 
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MostlyDead said:
Yep. Antifa are trying to stop a heinous ideology from spreading. They are meeting the neo-nazis on their own terms, so yeah, they are a little rough around the edges. But the neos are un-American, and even inhuman in a limited sense. Singing Kumbaya is not the move when confronting a white supremacist. And they are becoming openly accepted in a certain political party, and becoming more normalized by the day. I think it's significantly more acceptable for antifa to crawl down in the gutter with the neos. These two groups are not roughly equal but on opposite ends of the spectrum. One is textbook evil, and the other wants to reject that evil, By Any Means Necessary.
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Yeah, it's kind of like saying that the Allies were as bad at the Axis because they declared to war with them.
 
Upchurch said:
Are suggesting that there are people out there thinking, "Man, those white supremacist Nazis yesterday weren't so bad..."?
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I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people thinking that. Those people would be other white supremacists and Nazis.. ie, Trump supporters.
 
MostlyDead said:
I think a little less than a 1/100th, but your point is still clear.
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gah, yes, math is never my strong suit at 1:30am, then being awake at 1:30am isn't one of my strong suits either anymore.....

But yes, if 1% of the US population was being killed by the police each year it's likely that people might have noticed. For a start it'd be about 100 people a day rather than the 3 that we're actually seeing.
 
PhantomWolf said:
You realise that 300K is like a 10th of the population of the US? This stat seems to have come from the same orifice your 40 Countries attacked by the US since the Korean War came from.
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MostlyDead said:
I think a little less than a 1/100th, but your point is still clear.
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PhantomWolf said:
gah, yes, math is never my strong suit at 1:30am, then being awake at 1:30am isn't one of my strong suits either anymore.....

But yes, if 1% of the US population was being killed by the police each year it's likely that people might have noticed. For a start it'd be about 100 people a day rather than the 3 that we're actually seeing.
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:rolleyes:
 
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