Transgender man gives birth

[Belz...]

A few.

That's not an answer to my question.

Well, first I didn't say she should be, so your question is irrelevant. I asked if you thought it was justified. If you know women, you might be aware of their discomfort in said situations because of the perceived (or real) risk.

 

[3point14]

Well, first I didn't say she should be, so your question is irrelevant. I asked if you thought it was justified. If you know women, you might be aware of their discomfort in said situations because of the perceived (or real) risk.

I'm really not sure what your point is.

Therefore, I'm going with this again:


The sooner we all get over this puritanical ******** that makes so many petrified of the naked human body or terrified that someone might see theirs, the better.

 

[DragonLady]

Maybe just introduce unisex bathrooms and locker rooms? I mean, they do have a purpose, enough to make their removal because we can't agree who belongs where seem like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Makes much more sense just saying it's a locker room. Not a men's locker room or a women's locker room, but simply a locker room for anyone needing to change their clothes or take a shower.

Sure. Okay.

Let's just make 'em all unisex.

Those who don't wish to share can stay home.

Those who are in fear of being assaulted or exploited for any reason by anyone can stay home.

Those who want to expect a room labeled "women" will actually contain women, can stay home and make their own sign for their own door.

Those who have bladder and/or bowel control issues, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can stay home.

Those who need to wash their faces or hands but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can go home to do so -even if means leaving work in the middle of the day! We can probably convince Congress employers should pay for the time it takes them, too.

Those who need to blow their noses, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can do so in public, and if they spray a bit, well...you know...life is messy. Or, they can just stay home.

Those who need to inject themselves for serious illnesses, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can do so right out in public or go home.

Those who need to vomit but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can run 'round the back by the dumpsters.

Those who need to change clothes, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can go home. Hell, we might be able to convince Congress employers should pay for the time it takes them.


I will be just fine. Will you?

 

[uke2se]

Sure. Okay.

Let's just make 'em all unisex.

Those who don't wish to share can stay home.

Those who are in fear of being assaulted or exploited for any reason by anyone can stay home.

Those who want to expect a room labeled "women" will actually contain women, can stay home and make their own sign for their own door.

Those who have bladder and/or bowel control issues, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can stay home.

Those who need to wash their faces or hands but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can go home to do so -even if means leaving work in the middle of the day! We can probably convince Congress employers should pay for the time it takes them, too.

Those who need to blow their noses, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can do so in public, and if they spray a bit, well...you know...life is messy. Or, they can just stay home.

Those who need to inject themselves for serious illnesses, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can do so right out in public or go home.

Those who need to vomit but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can run 'round the back by the dumpsters.

Those who need to change clothes, but don't want to share with the opposite sex, can go home. Hell, we might be able to convince Congress employers should pay for the time it takes them.


I will be just fine. Will you?

All of those can learn to get over their anxieties. A trans-gendered person cannot learn to get over his/her gender dysphoria. That's the issue.

Unisex bathrooms have started popping up. I went to a large movie theatre lately with only unisex bathrooms. Nobody got sexually assaulted.

 

[sphenisc]

Unisex bathrooms have started popping up. I went to a large movie theatre lately with only unisex bathrooms. Nobody got sexually assaulted.

Is that because everyone went home?

 

[DragonLady]

All of those can learn to get over their anxieties. A trans-gendered person cannot learn to get over his/her. That's the issue.

Says who?

Why should a person who does not want to be seen by someone of the opposite sex be expected to "get over it" but a person who believes they were born in the wrong body should be catered to?

Again: why does this minority get to demand the majority to change their behaviors?

 

[uke2se]

Is that because everyone went home?

No, there were quite a lot of men and women in there. The lines were kinda long.

The men even used the urinals.

 

[uke2se]

Says who?

Says medical science. You do understand what gender dysphoria is, right?

 

[Belz...]

I'm really not sure what your point is.

Therefore, I'm going with this again:

Repeating it doesn't make it more true or justified.

The sooner we all get over this puritanical ******** that makes so many petrified of the naked human body or terrified that someone might see theirs, the better.

Do you or do you not understand why many women are uncomfortable or worried in the situation I outlined?

 

[DragonLady]

Says medical science. You do understand what gender dysphoria is, right?

Yes; I get it.

But your post almost makes it sound like "anxieties" are also some kind of pathology.

But considering how many of those anxieties have proven to be justified over the centuries, I don't think that's a fair characterization.

 

[uke2se]

Yes; I get it.

But your post almost makes it sound like "anxieties" are also some kind of pathology.

But considering how many of those anxieties have proven to be justified over the centuries, I don't think that's a fair characterization.

Now's your chance to provide some evidence: How often has a trans-gendered person behaved in such a way as to justify the anxieties of the people you speak of. Please provide citations.

 

[DragonLady]

How often has a trans-gendered person behaved in such a way as to justify the anxieties of the people you speak of. Please provide citations.

I don't know how many transgendered people have behaved in any particular way.

But I do know many thousands of people have been raped by members of the opposite sex when they found themselves isolated in an enclosed area with them.

That is why anxiety is perfectly normal, and not something to be cured or "gotten over".

 

[uke2se]

I don't know how many transgendered people have behaved in any particular way.

But I do know many thousands of people have been raped by members of the opposite sex when they found themselves isolated in an enclosed area with them.

That is why anxiety is perfectly normal, and not something to be cured or "gotten over".

You are talking about cis-gendered males raping people. Why are you attempting to punish tans-gendered people for that? It makes absolutely no sense.

Let's face it, this is all just an excuse to be bigoted. It's ok to admit it. Admitting it is the first step towards letting it go.

[cue clutching of pearls in 5... 4... 3... 2...]

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Those who are in fear of being assaulted or exploited for any reason by anyone can stay home.

"Any reason" is too broad. It includes "something I made up in my head that is in no way informed by the presence of any actual risk of danger."

African-Americans are only 13.3% of the population, do we all have to be made uncomfortable to make them feel better (which begs the question of why this one superficial quality is automatically presumed threatening)?


Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

 

[3point14]

Repeating it doesn't make it more true or justified.

Do you or do you not understand why many women are uncomfortable or worried in the situation I outlined?

I asked you why, you declined to answer.

I understand why, to a certain degree. That's the bit we have to 'get over'.

There's no real reason for it beyond the puritanical 'naked bodies are bad and cause sin and lust'. Naked bodies are just people.

 

[zooterkin]

I've just been at an SF Con where inclusiveness is one of the watchwords, and so sticky labels were available so we could indicate our preference for personal pronouns, and some of the toilets were labelled as gender neutral, as well as there being a clear policy for inclusivity. Strangely enough, armageddon did not ensue.

 

[Belz...]

I asked you why, you declined to answer.

I did answer: they are uncomfortable and worried in that situation.

I understand why, to a certain degree. That's the bit we have to 'get over'.

Why?

There's no real reason for it beyond the puritanical 'naked bodies are bad and cause sin and lust'.

That's not true, given my answer above. You're over-simplifying the issue.

 

[3point14]

I did answer: they are uncomfortable and worried in that situation.

Yes. It's a cultural thing. A nudity taboo is not built in to the human psyche, it's just there because of ******** religious doctrine.

Indeed, your nudity taboo is just on a scale - you don't insist on a hijab or veil, I presume? You just put up with a little more nudity than some and a little less then others.

Why?

Because it doesn't really serve any purpose. It's pretty irrational and leads to pearl clutchers being deeply concerned that small children migh, shock of shocks, see breasts.

That's not true, given my answer above. You're over-simplifying the issue.

I'm really not. As I say, you just have a taboo about nudity that is much greater than some but much, much less than others.

 

[Belz...]

Yes. It's a cultural thing. A nudity taboo is not built in to the human psyche, it's just there because of ******** religious doctrine.

It's a cultural thing, sure, but it's not just because of religious doctrine. I've already given you another reason.

Because it doesn't really serve any purpose. It's pretty irrational

You think it's irrational for a woman to think that a man seeing her nude may increase her odds of being assaulted?

I'm really not.

Since you've ignored other mentioned issues, how can you deny that this is a simplification?

 

[3point14]

It's a cultural thing, sure, but it's not just because of religious doctrine. I've already given you another reason.

That it makes people uncomfortable?

You think it's irrational for a woman to think that a man seeing her nude may increase her odds of being assaulted?

You think it's an accurate assessment? You think it's the naked lady's problem if some man can't control himself? (You and I, I am certain, could manage to not leap over a naked lady we saw.)

Since you've ignored other mentioned issues, how can you deny that this is a simplification?

Because it's not. It's a purely cultural taboo, as evidenced by the differing standards throughout the world. it's something we, as a culture, could do with getting over.


This is a massive derail, apologies all.