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US Citizen Otto Warmbier, returned from North Korea, has died
- Thread starter Vixen
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Chris_Halkides
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no contact with the Z society
According to Mr. Warmbier's confession, his rewards were less than that received by the Z society (a secret society at UVa with an interest in philanthropy) or the Friendship United Methodist Church. IIUC both were supposedly paid by the CIA. "A Z Society member told CNN that the society had never had any contact with Warmbier and that he had never been approached to be a member." link.
The mother of a friend of Mr. Warmbier's was said to be a deaconess at this church. I checked the church's website and found no one identified as a deacon or deaconess on the staff there.
According to Mr. Warmbier's confession, his rewards were less than that received by the Z society (a secret society at UVa with an interest in philanthropy) or the Friendship United Methodist Church. IIUC both were supposedly paid by the CIA. "A Z Society member told CNN that the society had never had any contact with Warmbier and that he had never been approached to be a member." link.
The mother of a friend of Mr. Warmbier's was said to be a deaconess at this church. I checked the church's website and found no one identified as a deacon or deaconess on the staff there.
3point14
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ponderingturtle
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No it was for his new youtube channel on extreme vacations, so it is ok to hold him in contempt and laugh at his death.
Chris_Halkides
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next stop China
IIUC he was going to China next, possibly Hong Kong. He was a finance and commerce major, and he might have been thinking of his future professional life. His father made some passing remarks about his reasons, but I don't think he delved into it much (I cannot find a link ATM). BTW I found this Time article helpful in understanding the diplomatic situation.
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Mycroft
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The flip side is if we don't want war, we must ignore or downplay these tragedies?
Isn't there a lot of room between these extremes? Or is it impossible to criticize a foreign power without pushing for war with them?
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ponderingturtle
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We are at war with north korea, we have been for more than 60 years. The armistice is not a peace treaty after all.
With regard to north korea we have no leverage other than war, hell it seems even the Chinese have little or no leverage with them. War is really the only thing that will have any effect.
Chris_Halkides
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there may be another alternative
"North Korea wants to attract ten times as many tourists to the country in just two years, taking the total to a million visitors." Daily Telegraph
"North Korea wants to attract ten times as many tourists to the country in just two years, taking the total to a million visitors." Daily Telegraph
Mycroft
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I'm pretty sure Cain was referring to the renewal of violence with North Korea, and not the legal technicality.
It seems like, given the state of their economy, that a sack of potatoes and a few bags of rice would have leverage.
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ponderingturtle
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Not with the leadership. They get their mercedes limo's by paying hard cash for them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11013338/Mercedes-limousines-spotted-in-North-Korea-could-breach-UN-sanctions.html
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/08/11/139556457/drug-dealing-counterfeiting-smuggling-how-north-korea-makes-money
Chris_Halkides
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travel ban
The US could ban travel there. I am not sure whether this would be a good idea or not; international diplomacy is not my forte.
SezMe
post-pre-born
I'm pretty sure Cain was posting with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
3point14
Pi
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Is that an accusation?
It's not a heinous crime to point out that sometimes, if one does dangerous things, the danger materialises.
Chris_Halkides
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What are the odds?
His decision to go to NK looks foolish in retrospect; however, I have given my reasons upthread for not believing that Mr. Warmbier broke any laws. Eight hundred to a thousand Americans go to North Korea as tourists every year, most of them without incident. On the other hand for every ten people who summit Mount Everest, one person dies.
TofuFighter
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I don't think the odds are relevant.
You'd have a hard time arguing that going to North Korea is not dangerous.
Certainly your mom wouldn't want you to go.
ponderingturtle
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I am comparing the general reactions of this death to the one of the guy trying to use paper to stop a bullet. No one seemed to find laughing over his death to be distasteful, while many in this thread seemed to think that blaming the dead man here was wrong.
I was trying to figure out when it is ok to laugh at someones death.
Mycroft
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I don't really think the guy who thought the book would stop the bullet is funny, but his death was entirely his own doing (and his girlfriend) whereas Otto's death was his own stupidity plus the insanity of the North Korean regime. He was a victim.
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Chris_Halkides
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I thought calling Mr. Warmbier a dick was a bit much.* I didn't laugh about the guy who got shot.
*EDT There is no persuasive evidence whatsoever that he committed a crime. Even the crime claimed by North Korea was only that he took down the banner, not that he had the banner when he was leaving the country.
*EDT There is no persuasive evidence whatsoever that he committed a crime. Even the crime claimed by North Korea was only that he took down the banner, not that he had the banner when he was leaving the country.
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3point14
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I see.
I must confess, the book shooting idiot raised a chuckle from me. Does that make me a bad person? Idiot ends up dead after being idiot is a funny thing - there was a whole website so successful it generated a book dedicated to idiots and their idiotic deaths.
The fellow in N Korea is less funny because he was less of an idiot - although committing any sort of crime while in a totalitarian state that's so poor and so sanctioned that it has nothing to lose does climb fairly high on the idiot scale. - This one is less funny because of the malicious human actors involved, I think.
Chris_Halkides
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