It CAN Happen Here....

[acbytesla]

And Krauthammer ain't no Liberal......


And THAT is a major problem I have with a lot of people here.......that anybody who is has conservative views...ie,might be skeptical of big government.....is either evil,an idiot, or both.
If Trump was a liberal but behaving the same way, I would be just as opposed to him. I can't say I think a lot of people here would do the same.

I have been thinking very much about this exact question.

Would I support a President who promoted single payer and a tax structure that was fairer toward the middle class but who was un-democratic, anti-press, anti-science anti-truth and the craziest sexist jerk that ever walked the earth?

HELL NO!!!!!!!

 

[Bob001]

Its a record of bad policy, not of instituting a police state. That's the problem. Not that people oppose Trump, people should, its that they oppose Trump by claiming we are on the verge of a totalitarian regime. Which just lets those inclined to ignored Trump's bad policy roll their eyes and justify ignoring his bad policy to themselves.

"Totalitarian," no. But certainly anti-democratic (small d) goals and values are being promoted, including tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the country, cuts in benefits for the poorest (including many Trump voters), voter suppression efforts, unlimited influence on policy by the Kochs and other self-interested billionaires, etc., etc. And what you call bad policy choices are motivated by a fundamental contempt for basic democratic (again small d) principles that goes way beyond traditional conservatism, as numerous conservative commentators themselves have noted. When someone like Newt Gingrich says his goal is to return the U.S. to the pre-FDR era -- no unions, no safety or consumer regulations, no financial oversight, no environmental protections, etc., etc., etc. -- he means it. If you think America in 1931 was a great place to be, you might get your wish. If ordinary Americans lose basic freedoms, it doesn't matter much what you call it.
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/26/ren...-fdr-and-the-new-deal-enters-its-final-stage/

 

[Bob001]

I have been thinking very much about this exact question.

Would I support a President who promoted single payer and a tax structure that was fairer toward the middle class but who was un-democratic, anti-press, anti-science anti-truth but the craziest sexist jerk that ever walked the earth?

HELL NO!!!!!!!

That's the point. The U.S. doesn't have a parliamentary system. Presidents aren't generally elected to promote specific policy goals. You could list a dozen major policy issues -- health insurance, tax reform, abortion, gun rights, banking regulation, immigration reform, trade policy, carbon tax, etc., etc. -- and reasonable people might go down the list and choose "one from column A and one from column B." (Many Trump voters clearly expected to get better health care that would cost less. Surprise!) But we have no way to know what's going to happen during a President's four-year term. We are choosing someone that we hope will have the character, experience and judgment to make the right decisions in the face of what we can't even imagine now. Nobody voted for GW Bush to deal with 9/11 or a war in Iraq or Katrina in New Orleans. But they happened on his watch. We don't know what will happen during Trump's term. But we have compelling reasons to doubt his ability to deal with any of it sensibly, let alone successfully.

 

[BStrong]

Lunatic conspiracy theories are one thing. But the things that Trump says from his own mouth (and his own thumb) are very much another, and you can't conflate them. You're falling back on the"they all do it" rationalization for almost anything. But they don't all do it.

For starters, nobody lies like Trump:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431755/donald-trumps-huge-lies
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/donald-trump-lies-liar-effect-brain-214658
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/?list=speaker
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm_term=.572cdac379cc

And his lies are making policy, from an Interior Secretary who doesn't accept climate change to an Education Secretary who wants to kill off public schools to a SecState who has spent his life making oil deals with Russia to a sham commission looking for millions of non-existent fraudulent votes as a front for voter suppression laws. There's no conspiracy theory here; this is Trump's own record.

Buy a kevlar helmet, dig a hole, have at it.

 

[BStrong]

To be fair, Rex-84 was some crazy **** that people should have been worked up about. I suppose they likely still have a contingency plan to round up american en masse, but they shouldn't.

And the right-wing nuts were sure President Obama was going to institute martial law via Jade Helm 15.

The only thing that endures is that the folks that run around with their hair on fire turn out to be wrong.

 

[alfaniner]

If Trump was a liberal but behaving the same way, I would be just as opposed to him. I can't say I think a lot of people here would do the same.

I have been thinking very much about this exact question.

Would I support a President who promoted single payer and a tax structure that was fairer toward the middle class but who was un-democratic, anti-press, anti-science anti-truth but the craziest sexist jerk that ever walked the earth?

HELL NO!!!!!!!

To make it clear for the deplorables, a "liberal" would not be behaving the same way.

 

[acbytesla]

Its a record of bad policy, not of instituting a police state. That's the problem. Not that people oppose Trump, people should, its that they oppose Trump by claiming we are on the verge of a totalitarian regime. Which just lets those inclined to ignored Trump's bad policy roll their eyes and justify ignoring his bad policy to themselves.

I think you're right, but also wrong. Trump is trying to be a dictator. And he's following the playbook step by step. This would be easier if the United States didn't have 219 years of democratic rule and institutions. So I doubt he will succeed. But we should not close our eyes and think it would be impossible here.

People forget that Hitler was ELECTED. He didn't become Chancellor through a coup.
Trump is deliberately trying to undermine the institutions that ensure our democracy. He is slowly laying ruin to the State Department, the Justice Department and our intelligence services.

Trump’s non stop drumbeat of 'Fake News' certainly sounds a like Hitler's rant of Lugenpresse.

I don't think Trump is Hitler, but that doesn't mean he's not dangerous and we should not be wary. What concerns me most is how our heads are buried in the sand. The level of cognitive dissonance in this country just keeps growing and growing. Trump is crazier than Timothy McVeigh and a hell of a lot scarier.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Would I support a President who promoted single payer and a tax structure that was fairer toward the middle class but who was un-democratic, anti-press, anti-science anti-truth but the craziest sexist jerk that ever walked the earth?

Yep. "Those are decent ideas, but let's get someone who's not a raging piece of **** into office to implement them."

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I don't think Trump is Hitler, but that doesn't mean he's not dangerous and we should not be wary. What concerns me most is how our heads are buried in the sand. The level of cognitive dissonance in this country just keeps growing and growing.

One of Hitler's lasting legacies: he raised the bar so high that people are comfortable with anything "not as bad as Hitler". All that really does is convince some to take no action until someone does do something "as bad as Hitler".

Preventative care doesn't seem to be something a lot of people are interested in.

 

[acbytesla]

One of Hitler's lasting legacies: he raised the bar so high that people are comfortable with anything "not as bad as Hitler". All that really does is convince some to take no action until someone does do something "as bad as Hitler".

Preventative care doesn't seem to be something a lot of people are interested in.

I hate mentioning Hitler. In terms of rhetoric and undermining institutions there are definitely similarities. Both pushing the nationalism button. But Trump doesn't really have the power base that Hitler had. And while there is little doubt that Trump is a bigot, he's not a white supremacist. More like Archie Bunker than Adolf Hitler.

Trump is brilliant at manipulating the press but that seems to be the limit for his brilliance.

Trump seems more greedy and being the center of attention than anything else. His overriding ideology seems to be 'Trump Good', everyone and everything that threatens him bad. Sooner or later this has to grow old even with his supporters. You would think.

 

[Giz]

I hate mentioning Hitler. In terms of rhetoric and undermining institutions there are definitely similarities. Both pushing the nationalism button.

Good job not mentioning hitler there. And also for making specific points, that couldn't apply to politicians in general.

 

[acbytesla]

Good job not mentioning hitler there. And also for making specific points, that couldn't apply to politicians in general.

That's a false equivalence. Trump is not like anything we've ever seen. I've never seen anyone lie to the degree that Trump does and then suggests everyone else is the one lying.
So the claim that he's like politicians in general is crap.

Trump is a disgrace not only as politician but as a human being. He's a disgusting lying sexist turd. If he was in my toilet, I'd flush it because his stink is polluting the air.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Reagan did have record setting corruption and imprisonment in his administration. All things that make one a saint to republicans.

Yes, Reagan was the most corrupt POTUS in the history of our country, but the greatest one according to Republicons.

 

[thaiboxerken]

In that he only described it as actions he regularly does, like just start kissing them instead of naming specific women he has sexually assaulted. He is on record for all kinds of sexual assault, how about is bragging about barging in on the girls changing for Miss Teen USA?

You are turning a statement of "I regularly sexually assault women" into a non admission because he didn't name any specific women he sexually assaulted?

Just because Trump bragged of doing such things doesn't mean he has done such things. The conservative argument is that he only bragged about it, so he's a good person. Yes, Trump is a good person because he lionizes the behavior......

 

[thaiboxerken]

And the right-wing nuts were sure President Obama was going to institute martial law via Jade Helm 15.

The only thing that endures is that the folks that run around with their hair on fire turn out to be wrong.

The problem is, Obama was accused of doing things he never did or said. Cheeo king has done plenty. I don't think he'll ever be a dictator, but he's sure trying.

 

[Noztradamus]

You might note that the list consists of news articles. Are you accusing the media of being hysterical when they report on the things Trump and his cronies do?

That has been the usual policy for increasing cicrulation, even before the competition from Twitter

 

[BStrong]

Yes, Reagan was the most corrupt POTUS in the history of our country, but the greatest one according to Republicons.

You could easily make the case that Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon equaled or exceeded anything Reagan thought up - hell, Spiro Agnew was nabbed taking bribes as far backs as his governorship of Maryland and got the standard "no contest" deal - pay a fine, go away, keep your mouth shut.

JFK, Bay of Pigs, JEH bugging w/o warrant (Johnson and Nixon too) Johnson, Tonkin Gulf, ConIntelPro. Nixon? Bebe Rebozo, Robert Vesco, enemies list.

It's a pick-'em at best.

And before we get too far down the Trump the molester path as some sort of singularity, both JFK and LBJ (Need I even mention Bill Clinton?) chased women con mucho gusto before and during their respective presidencies. Horn dog Presidents seem to be more the rule than the exception. That doesn't exonerate Trump in the least but let's not pretend he invented it and patented the process.

 

[BStrong]

The problem is, Obama was accused of doing things he never did or said. Cheeo king has done plenty. I don't think he'll ever be a dictator, but he's sure trying.

You're entirely correct, but it doesn't help make the case that Trump is somehow the epitome of evil in two-legged form.

The man is a boor and a fool. There's no telling whether the guy will straighten up and fly right, or implode and resign. I make no representations as to the possibility of the former, but would not be surprised to see the later.

Is he going to wake up in the early morning hours tomorrow and crown himself President for Life? I seriously doubt it. I seriously doubt too many people involved with National Command Authority are very happy with the man or his policies so far.

I hate to try to talk all the ledge walkers out of their head spinning joy at the impending right wing dictatorship, but having seen people do exactly the same thing in anticipation of the coming left wing dictatorships (that have never developed) I feel obligated to point you folks towards some semblance of sanity.

 

[Noztradamus]

I wouldn't call it early dementia, he is 70.

I resemble that statement!

 

[thaiboxerken]

I hate to try to talk all the ledge walkers out of their head spinning joy at the impending right wing dictatorship, but having seen people do exactly the same thing in anticipation of the coming left wing dictatorships (that have never developed) I feel obligated to point you folks towards some semblance of sanity.

What ledge are people walking off of again?

I believe that pointing out the authoritarian type of actions and speech that Trump and the GOP are using helps to prevent a dictatorship from happening. If there weren't protests, those in power would simply take more power.