It CAN Happen Here....

[ahhell]

The persistent belief by some that the GOP are some well oiled machine backing Trump or any other republican politician flies in the face of reality. As noted in list of hitlerian moves by trump, he hasn't actually gotten anything done, despite having majorities in both houses.

My primary concern with the doomsaying is that it just gives cover to Don's actually disturbing moves. Crying, OMG its just like the Weimar Republic!" every time the GOP floats a bill or Trump plays golf or calling them murders when at most they're rolling back ACA a little bit, just ensures the majority of us will keep rolling are eyes when you start crying wolf as he gets a list of every voter in America, which is actually disturbing.

 

[The Don]

There clearly are Republicans who do care and aren't in lock-step with The Hair. He's had prominent defections on the travel ban and healthcare

I'll believe it when a bill actually fails due to defections in the ranks. I agree with sts60s assessment that up to 2 senators from purple states will be allowed to vote against (and then Pence will break any resulting tie) but all the others who are currently making a lot of noise will come out and say publicly that concessions have been made which have eased their concerns and they can now support this amazingly brilliant bill 110%

and there's Republican support for Russia hearings.

IMO Republican support for the Russia hearings is in the full expectation that President Trump will be exonerated. For sure some underlings may be proved to have "mis-remembered" not having had meetings with some Russian diplomats and operators but somehow it will be within their overall remits and/or not particularly important, but there will be no proof that President Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election.

IMO any breaches will be interpretable as being "technical" and there'l be no arrests or impeachments.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There clearly are Republicans who do care and aren't in lock-step with The Hair. He's had prominent defections on the travel ban and healthcare and there's Republican support for Russia hearings. I think The Hair is trying to become an authoritarian but he's not just not succeeding at it.

Not really. They had people saying in public that they would defect. They use only words not actions. You don't see republicans pushing in the testimony when say Sessions refuses to answer a question with no legal justification for it. They are pulling a McCain, it is all talk and no substance.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The last time I saw people this worked up about the coming right-wing dictatorship was REX-84 under Reagan:

Reagan did have record setting corruption and imprisonment in his administration. All things that make one a saint to republicans.

 

[ahhell]

While more facts about trumps sexual assault did nothing because all of his supporters knew he sexually assaults women and don't think that is a negative trait in a leader.

This is such BS, there's better evidence that B. Clinton sexually assaulted women than Trump did. Hint, Trump did not say he had ever grabbed a women by the pussy.

 

[ponderingturtle]

IMO Republican support for the Russia hearings is in the full expectation that President Trump will be exonerated.

And they only support hearings that they have control over to make sure that happens.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This is such BS, there's better evidence that B. Clinton sexually assaulted women than Trump did. Hint, Trump did not say he had ever grabbed a women by the pussy.

In that he only described it as actions he regularly does, like just start kissing them instead of naming specific women he has sexually assaulted. He is on record for all kinds of sexual assault, how about is bragging about barging in on the girls changing for Miss Teen USA?

You are turning a statement of "I regularly sexually assault women" into a non admission because he didn't name any specific women he sexually assaulted?

 

[The Don]

The persistent belief by some that the GOP are some well oiled machine backing Trump or any other republican politician flies in the face of reality. As noted in list of hitlerian moves by trump, he hasn't actually gotten anything done, despite having majorities in both houses.

He's got plenty done

Getting Gorsuch appointed to SCOTUS will be enough of a legacy for many (one way or another depending on your political persuasion), likewise pulling out of the Paris accord, rolling back all kinds of environmental protections, and gutting Frank-Dodd.

If the GOP manage to force the healthcare legislation through then that's even more profound.

My primary concern with the doomsaying is that it just gives cover to Don's actually disturbing moves. Crying, OMG its just like the Weimar Republic!" every time the GOP floats a bill or Trump plays golf or calling them murders when at most they're rolling back ACA a little bit, just ensures the majority of us will keep rolling are eyes when you start crying wolf as he gets a list of every voter in America, which is actually disturbing.

Personally I think that 20+ million in real risk of losing their health insurance, especially the groups most at risk is a reason to get exercised. Add a few more millions or tens of millions who will end up will useless or close to useless insurance cover and that's also bad YMMV.

W.r.t. the golf, the intention is to point out his incredible hypocrisy but of course we don't care about that any more.

 

[BStrong]

Reagan did have record setting corruption and imprisonment in his administration. All things that make one a saint to republicans.

Great way to ignore the point.

Partisan idiots have no difficulty in recognizing the coming dictatorship from the other side of the aisle.

The only thing that changes in politics is who is doing the pointing and who is being pointed at - it's pretty much the same argument every time.

 

[Bob001]

Great way to ignore the point.

Partisan idiots have no difficulty in recognizing the coming dictatorship from the other side of the aisle.

The only thing that changes in politics is who is doing the pointing and who is being pointed at - it's pretty much the same argument every time.

You really don't see a qualitative difference between Trump and all of his predecessors? His grotesque ignorance of pretty much everything, his crude contempt for the judiciary and the media, his rejection of established science, his encouragement of violence, his demeaning our allies and pandering to our enemies, his willingness to drop millions of people from health insurance, don't disturb you? They sure bother a lot of conservatives:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...0e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.edc42ab94999
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...324760ca856_story.html?utm_term=.d07d9e3fc35e
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...nd-america-once-again/?utm_term=.8735ff853cc4
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ferent-from-any-other/?utm_term=.c24e589c1d7c

Etc., etc.

 

[BStrong]

You really don't see a qualitative difference between Trump and all of his predecessors? His grotesque ignorance of pretty much everything, his crude contempt for the judiciary and the media, his rejection of established science, his encouragement of violence, his demeaning our allies and pandering to our enemies, his willingness to drop millions of people from health insurance, don't disturb you? They sure bother a lot of conservatives:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...0e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.edc42ab94999
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...324760ca856_story.html?utm_term=.d07d9e3fc35e
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...nd-america-once-again/?utm_term=.8735ff853cc4
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ferent-from-any-other/?utm_term=.c24e589c1d7c

Etc., etc.

I don't believe he is any type of singularity in world view, only in his presentation of his pov.

I've been hearing that the sky was falling and the end is near since the 1960's - and nothing much has changed - other than who's pointing and who they're pointing at.

 

[ahhell]

You really don't see a qualitative difference between Trump and all of his predecessors? His grotesque ignorance of pretty much everything, his crude contempt for the judiciary and the media, his rejection of established science, his encouragement of violence, his demeaning our allies and pandering to our enemies, his willingness to drop millions of people from health insurance, don't disturb you? They sure bother a lot of conservatives:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...0e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.edc42ab94999
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...324760ca856_story.html?utm_term=.d07d9e3fc35e
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...nd-america-once-again/?utm_term=.8735ff853cc4
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ferent-from-any-other/?utm_term=.c24e589c1d7c

Etc., etc.

It doesn't matter if Trump is singularly bad, as Bstrong and ironically Bill Maher have said, since folks have been claiming that every GOP president in the last 30 years was a fascist or crypto-facist, racist monster and every Dem president was a communist or crypto-communist or crypto-muslim, nobody believes it anymore. Even when we have a singularly bad president.

 

[Bob001]

I don't believe he is any type of singularity in world view, only in his presentation of his pov.

I've been hearing that the sky was falling and the end is near since the 1960's - and nothing much has changed - other than who's pointing and who they're pointing at.

Trump himself is a clown with early dementia, not a scheming political genius. But he is available to be used by the most extreme right-wing elements of the society, whose stated goal is to turn the U.S. back to the pre-FDR era. And they're winning.
http://www.salon.com/2017/07/03/don...-have-the-right-wing-thinking-big-really-big/
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/04/21/biblical-economics-the-divine-laissez-faire-mandate/

 

[ahhell]

I wouldn't call it early dementia, he is 70.

 

[BStrong]

Trump himself is a clown with early dementia, not a scheming political genius. But he is available to be used by the most extreme right-wing elements of the society, who's stated goal is to turn the U.S. back to the pre-FDR era. And they're winning.
http://www.salon.com/2017/07/03/don...-have-the-right-wing-thinking-big-really-big/
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/04/21/biblical-economics-the-divine-laissez-faire-mandate/

I'm old enough to well remember the the hand-wringing over JFK being a Catholic and taking orders from the Pope, Goldwater was going to start WWIII if he got in, Johnson gave away the country to the Negros, Nixon stole the country and was going to start WWIII before he resigned, etc. etc.

I have no idea how old you are, maybe this is all new to you, but absent future developments, all the Trump stuff is no different than all the crap I've been hearing for near 60 years, as applied to both parties.

Do yourself a favor. Read Thomas Pynchon's Vineland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vineland

Fictionalized version of the actual hysteria surrounding REX 84.

Then read about the Jade Helm conspiracy theories from the right about President Obama.

There is nothing new under the sun, and this Trump hysteria is no different. It isn't even all that original, outside of modern communication considerations. LBJ showed his gall bladder surgery incision on TV:

http://www.art.com/products/p167195...-the-press-his-gall-bladder-surgery-scars.htm

Trump would tweet it.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

I don't believe he is any type of singularity in world view, only in his presentation of his pov.

I've been hearing that the sky was falling and the end is near since the 1960's - and nothing much has changed - other than who's pointing and who they're pointing at.

Good thing 'bout slippery slopes is they're like that "hot water with dumb frogs in it" thing. By which I mean, there is now a real alt-right party in the US, call it Nazi, call it what you like.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm old enough to well remember the the hand-wringing over JFK being a Catholic and taking orders from the Pope, Goldwater was going to start WWIII if he got in, Johnson gave away the country to the Negros, Nixon stole the country and was going to start WWIII before he resigned, etc. etc.

Well he did make drunken jokes about that when he was feeling down near the end of his term.

 

[Bob001]

I'm old enough to well remember the the hand-wringing over JFK being a Catholic and taking orders from the Pope, Goldwater was going to start WWIII if he got in, Johnson gave away the country to the Negros, Nixon stole the country and was going to start WWIII before he resigned, etc. etc.

I have no idea how old you are, maybe this is all new to you, but absent future developments, all the Trump stuff is no different than all the crap I've been hearing for near 60 years, as applied to both parties.
....

Lunatic conspiracy theories are one thing. But the things that Trump says from his own mouth (and his own thumb) are very much another, and you can't conflate them. You're falling back on the"they all do it" rationalization for almost anything. But they don't all do it.

For starters, nobody lies like Trump:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431755/donald-trumps-huge-lies
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/donald-trump-lies-liar-effect-brain-214658
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/?list=speaker
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm_term=.572cdac379cc

And his lies are making policy, from an Interior Secretary who doesn't accept climate change to an Education Secretary who wants to kill off public schools to a SecState who has spent his life making oil deals with Russia to a sham commission looking for millions of non-existent fraudulent votes as a front for voter suppression laws. There's no conspiracy theory here; this is Trump's own record.

 

[ahhell]

The last time I saw people this worked up about the coming right-wing dictatorship was REX-84 under Reagan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

To be fair, Rex-84 was some crazy **** that people should have been worked up about. I suppose they likely still have a contingency plan to round up american en masse, but they shouldn't.

 

[ahhell]

Lunatic conspiracy theories are one thing. But the things that Trump says from his own mouth (and his own thumb) are very much another, and you can't conflate them. You're falling back on the"they all do it" rationalization for almost anything. But they don't all do it.

For starters, nobody lies like Trump:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431755/donald-trumps-huge-lies
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/donald-trump-lies-liar-effect-brain-214658
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/?list=speaker
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/trump-lies/?utm_term=.572cdac379cc

And his lies are making policy, from an Interior Secretary who doesn't accept climate change to an Education Secretary who wants to kill off public schools to a SecState who has spent his life making oil deals with Russia to a sham commission looking for millions of non-existent fraudulent votes as a front for voter suppression laws. There's no conspiracy theory here; this is Trump's own record.

Its a record of bad policy, not of instituting a police state. That's the problem. Not that people oppose Trump, people should, its that they oppose Trump by claiming we are on the verge of a totalitarian regime. Which just lets those inclined to ignored Trump's bad policy roll their eyes and justify ignoring his bad policy to themselves.