Brexit: Now What? Part III

[McHrozni]

Well, point out what difference any of the omissions made, because I can't see they were of any relevance.

For starters you changed the meaning of "Brexit was a right-wing populist project" into "Every single part of the campaign had right-wing slant to it".

Then when I pointed out all actions coming from the parliament were in line with the right-wing populist talking points you decided that meant the parliament decided what the talking points in the campaign were.

When I pointed it out you said I was the one that made the decision.

All in all, not one of your points made any sense whatsoever.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

For starters you changed the meaning of "Brexit was a right-wing populist project" into "Every single part of the campaign had right-wing slant to it"........McHronzi

That's nowhere in 2060 or 2080. The entire crux of the morning's conversation is in those two posts. If you can't deal with them, just say you can't, but don't make up words and put them in my mouth, with quotation marks, because that is just dishonest.

 

[MikeG]

........All in all, not one of your points made any sense whatsoever.

McHronzi

Well, just calm down and think. Read 2060 again, and go back over the posts they quote. If you clear the red mist from your eyes for a few seconds you'll maybe understand that your answers are misleading.

 

[McHrozni]

That's nowhere in 2060 or 2080. The entire crux of the morning's conversation is in those two posts. If you can't deal with them, just say you can't, but don't make up words and put them in my mouth, with quotation marks, because that is just dishonest.

If you say so. Please tell me, do you agree now that Brexit was a right-wing populist project or not? If not, why not? What would it need to have that it didn't in order to be a right-wing populist project?

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

If you say so.

I do. Thank you.

Please tell me, do you agree now that Brexit was a right-wing populist project or not?.......

It was a populist project. It was not a right wing project. I thought I had been making that pretty clear all morning.

 

[McHrozni]

It was not a right wing project.

Charming. Can you also please answer the other two questions as well?

For your convenience, the questions were:
Why Brexit wasn't a right-wing project?
What would Brexit have to include in order for you to classify it as a right-wing project?

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

Charming. Can you also please answer the other two questions as well?

Sure.

......Why Brexit wasn't a right-wing project?

Because it straddled all political parties, and all strands of political opinion from the hard left to the hard right.

What would Brexit have to include in order for you to classify it as a right-wing project?

Leading question. It's not what it would have had to include, but what it would have to have excluded. If it had excluded voices from all of the leading national parties other than those of the right wing, then that would have been a start. If it wasn't a campaign that simply reflected the will of the majority of the population, many of whom were traditional left-wing voters, then you'd have more of a case.

McHronzi

The problem is that you are lazily trying to pigeon-hole Brexit. You are of the left. You disagree with the result. So, automatically, you assign it to your political enemies: the right. This is weak thinking, if it is thinking at all.

It seems to be beyond your understanding that Euroscepticism ran deep and strong throughout Britain, through all walks of life. It is at least 30 years since any major political party in the country had reflected this (when the Labour party changed from anti Common Market to pro), which is a huge failure of representative democracy. If you wanted to set it up such that the political elites could be said to be non-representative and anti-democratic, you could hardly set the situation up better. It wouldn't have mattered if Mickey Mouse and Santa Claus had led the campaigns.........there would have been a huge vote for Brexit. So, by trying to pin the blame on right wingers, you delude yourself, and you skew the argument.

 

[McHrozni]

Because it straddled all political parties, and all strands of political opinion from the hard left to the hard right.

But right-wing dominated the propaganda and decisions taken since invoking article 50. Don't actions count for something too?

Leading question. It's not what it would have had to include, but what it would have to have excluded. If it had excluded voices from all of the leading national parties other than those of the right wing, then that would have been a start. If it wasn't a campaign that simply reflected the will of the majority of the population, many of whom were traditional left-wing voters, then you'd have more of a case.

You're focused solely on the campaign. The campaign ended over a year ago and a lot has happened since. Why doesn't that affect the nature of Brexit?

The problem is that you are lazily trying to pigeon-hole Brexit. You are of the left. You disagree with the result. So, automatically, you assign it to your political enemies: the right. This is weak thinking, if it is thinking at all.

Actually my political opinions lean more towards the right than the left. Not to the hard-line nationalist side, true, but when it comes to the role of the government in economy, the purpose of government interventions and relations between nations I'm anything but left.

Thanks for trying to lazily pigeon-hole me though. Much appreciated.

It seems to be beyond your understanding that Euroscepticism ran deep and strong throughout Britain, through all walks of life. It is at least 30 years since any major political party in the country had reflected this (when the Labour party changed from anti Common Market to pro), which is a huge failure of representative democracy. If you wanted to set it up such that the political elites could be said to be non-representative and anti-democratic, you could hardly set the situation up better. It wouldn't have mattered if Mickey Mouse and Santa Claus had led the campaigns.........there would have been a huge vote for Brexit. So, by trying to pin the blame on right wingers, you delude yourself, and you skew the argument.

I'm not blaming it on right-wingers. I'm saying the project is dominated by right-wingers and their talking points to the point it became their project. Their victory was enabled by others as well, certainly, but it became, overwhelmingly, the project of right-wing populism.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

.........the project of right-wing populism.

Keep saying it. That'll make it true.

As to the rest of your stuff. You may have noticed that the government isn't of the left. It's hard to think why any of their policies might be left wing ones.

McHronzi

 

[McHrozni]

As to the rest of your stuff. You may have noticed that the government isn't of the left. It's hard to think why any of their policies might be left wing ones.

Yeah. There is an underlying reason as to why Brexit is a right-wing populist project - it was executed by a right-wing government. Shocking.

I'm sorry, you thought this is a reason as to why Brexit isn't a right-wing populist project? I hate to disappoint you on it.

Well, not really

McHrozni

 

[3point14]

UKIP aren't right wing?

This was all driven by the Tories (right wing) and the party they were so afraid of losing votes to, UKUIP (right wing)

It all seemed like a right wing project to me.


With the usual caveats that L/R is a *********** pants and decisive way to describe complex views.

 

[MikeG]

Yeah. There is an underlying reason as to why Brexit is a right-wing populist project - it was executed by a right-wing government. Shocking.......

Some people are beyond help.

Please tell me when Brexit was executed. You know, the actual date we left the EU.

ETA........By this "logic".....if Labour under Corbyn was now in power and doing the extraction of Britain from the EU, then Brexit would have been a left wing project.

McHronzi

 

[MikeG]

UKIP aren't right wing?.......

Whoever claimed that?

 

[McHrozni]

Please tell me when Brexit was executed.

March 29th, 2017.

ETA........By this "logic".....if Labour under Corbyn was now in power and doing the extraction of Britain from the EU, then Brexit would have been a left wing project.

No. If Labour under Corbyn held a referendum on Brexit, ran a Leave campaign based on their opposition to capitalist lobby group that is the EU, invoked article 50 and led the project in the direction of a socialist Britain, it would have been a left-wing project. Probably a populist project too.

Is this so hard to grasp?

McHrozni

 

[3point14]

Whoever claimed that?

The UK Independence party is right wing but the campaign for independence for the UK isn't?

 

[MikeG]

March 29th, 2017.

Yeah, righto......

No. If Labour under Corbyn held a referendum on Brexit, ran a Leave campaign based on their opposition to capitalist lobby group that is the EU, invoked article 50 and led the project in the direction of a socialist Britain, it would have been a left-wing project. Probably a populist project too.

Don't tell me you've forgotten that the Tory government campaigned to remain in the EU, that it was official government policy to Remain? Surely even the most one-eyed isn't overlooking this. Your analogy, in the light if this childish error, is not valid.

McHronzi

 

[McHrozni]

:
Don't tell me you've forgotten that the Tory government campaigned to remain in the EU, that it was official government policy to Remain?

Until the referendum, sure.

Do you realize that was a year ago and things have changed since?

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

As I said upthread, it was a right wing campaign insofar as:

• The group which provided the catalyst (UKIP) are a right wing party
• Many of the most prominent supporters of Brexit were right wingers
• The newspapers who for decades carried the stories that sowed the seeds for Brexit (bendy banana bans and the like) were right wing papers
• The right wing parties (Conservatives, DUP, UKIP) had a majority of their supporters voting Brexit (as opposed to the centreist and left-wing parties for whom an overwhelming majority voted remain)
• The Brexit campaign was largely funded by right wing donors
• The most prominent leaders of the Brexit campaign were right wingers

 

[MikeG]

The UK Independence party is right wing but the campaign for independence for the UK isn't?

Wasn't. The campaign is over. But yes.

 

[MikeG]

Until the referendum, sure.

Do you realize that was a year ago and things have changed since?

McHronzi

You said campaign : "If Labour under Corbyn held a referendum on Brexit, ran a Leave campaign". The campaign happened before the referendum, so it irrelevant to your point that stuff has happened since then.

This childishness isn't productive. Cheerio.