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The Trump Presidency

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Fast Eddie B said:
They would respond that its Hillary voters who are the stupid ones for buying her lies and deceit.
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I have a good friend in Texas who is neither stupid or racist but who says exactly that.

Fast Eddie B said:
And both are equally wrong.
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I can't go along with this. The lies and deceits about HRC cannot compare to Trump. The seemingly endless lies about Benghazi!!11!11! and her email server simply have no equivalent on the other side of the aisle.

Trump made his political name by trading on Obama's Kenyan birth. There is NOTHING even remotely equivalent ANYWHERE on the left.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
And I agree as well!

To the extent I think there's something wrong with the man.

My statement was that my friends who voted for him
are not stupid people, and I think that's demonstrably true and I stand by that statement.

It may be satisfying to paint one's opposition as "stupid", but I think it obscures a deeper truth.
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The the right wing in america has given up on the idea that there is such a thing as objective reality. They are all now post modernists. That is why Trump as the first post modernist president is perfect for them.
 
newyorkguy said:
The people I know who voted for Trump are pretty reactionary. They're nostalgic for the America they think they remember and they want to go back to it. As far as I can tell, that's really about it. Some of them have become disillusioned, they say, "He's no different."
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Or they hated Hillary
 
Fast Eddie B said:
My guess?

Something about the appeal of authoritarianism and populism when packaged in a certain fashion. By what I would label a demagogue. And there's no denying it appealed to a wide swath of America's population.

It has a long history, and Trump's mannerisms and delivery still evoke comparisons to Mussolini, in my mind.
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My guess?

Populism in 2016 was manifested by Trump offering simplistic solutions to difficult, complex solutions. In a complex world, for low-education or low-information voters the idea that some powerful person can wave his hand at these problems and make them disappear is very attractive.

The same applies to Trump's nationalism (which is decidedly different than patriotism, especially with Trump). His "America First" sounds good but is simply a smoke screen for thoughtless foreign policy.

I agree with the parallels with Mussolini. My greatest fear is not so much Trump but the GOP that supports him and the voters who can see no harm in his presidency. I see the present-day rise of Trump and the far right as a crystal clear harbinger of extreme authoritarian bleeding into Fascism.

Other democracies have fallen down this rat hole and I have a hard time seeing the bakes on this process in the GOP. The worst aspect is the almost invisible decline in the institutions of good government such as Trump bashing the judiciary when he disagrees with a decision. The violent rhetoric (and sometimes actions) on the campaign trail. The scariest of all is the glorification of the military, manifest not only in the blind praise but the absolutely obscene amount of money we throw at them.

I'll climb off my soapbox to ask this question, Fast Eddie: If you somewhat agree, do your not racist and not stupid friends see this fruit of Trump's victory?
 
seayakin said:
Rather than accuse them off stupidity, one might have to consider education and critical thinking skills.

My mother among others who strongly support Trump. She gets almost all her information from conservative talk radio, Breitbert and similar web sites, and Fox News. She is surrounded by people who reinforce her opinion. Many people don't challenge themselves by reading contrary views to their own but I believe Trump supporters have taken this to a different level.

I also agree with Trebuchet that there are multiple motivations.
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My hunch is that this hits the nail square on the head. The conservative media echo chamber has been slowly gaining momentum since ...I don't know, the 80s? To the point that it is a runaway behemoth money making machine with no sense of perspective or, really, reality.


theprestige said:
That a lot of us think the china shop is long overdue for a visit from the bull.

That it's high time the toad got stung by the scorpion, and with any luck will drown for his troubles.
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Long overdue to, what? Destroy America's principles, progress, and standing in the world? Alienate our allies? Let people choose between death and homelessness (and then death)?

That is one of the most callous and, yet somehow, succinct statement of the conservative media echo chamber position toward life I think I've ever heard.
 
Upchurch said:
That is one of the most callous and, yet somehow, succinct statement of the conservative media echo chamber position toward life I think I've ever heard.
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There are many who don't like what the USA has become. A place where women can vote, minorities have rights, and the gays are out of the closet. Trump is who they voted for to correct these inequities against white supremacy.
 
Anyone like me - very skeptical and cynical about the sudden intelligence (not shared with your allies) about chemical weapon attacks in Syria at the time there are lots of negative stories about the health-care legislation?
 
thaiboxerken said:
There are many who don't like what the USA has become. A place where women can vote, minorities have rights, and the gays are out of the closet. Trump is who they voted for to correct these inequities against white supremacy.
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Even if that's true, I don't think it is conscious for most. I have relatives who will tell you all day long that they are not racist, but then tut-tut that black people should have been more respectful when the police drag them from their cars to beat or shoot them.
 
theprestige said:
That a lot of us think the china shop is long overdue for a visit from the bull.

That it's high time the toad got stung by the scorpion, and with any luck will drown for his troubles.
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Imposition by force: the "libertarian" shows his true colors at last. There will be no going back to that safe retreat of infinite misdirects, the track record now disallows it.

And yes, this does sound quite familiar, reminiscent of the rhetoric prior to and following the Reichstag fire. Notice the complete lack of effort to reason or justify; rage and, one can only suppose, racial purity are quite enough.
 
Upchurch said:
Even if that's true, I don't think it is conscious for most. I have relatives who will tell you all day long that they are not racist, but then tut-tut that black people should have been more respectful when the police drag them from their cars to beat or shoot them.
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For many, it is subconscious. White privilege is real.
 
newyorkguy said:
The people I know who voted for Trump are pretty reactionary. They're nostalgic for the America they think they remember and they want to go back to it. As far as I can tell, that's really about it. Some of them have become disillusioned, they say, "He's no different."
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But the blacks, gays and women back in their place. And raise the top tax bracket to at least 75%.

I am amazed how many people still don't think he was serious about the wall, arguing it was a metaphor. Seriously has trump ever showed any use of metaphor?
 
SezMe said:
My guess?

Populism in 2016 was manifested by Trump offering simplistic solutions to difficult, complex solutions. In a complex world, for low-education or low-information voters the idea that some powerful person can wave his hand at these problems and make them disappear is very attractive.
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But is that who elected him, or was it the upper class voters who like the idea of firing anyone who will not die for the company?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Hey they have worked for decades on that character assassination, we couldn't let all that hard work go to waste.
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The character assassination of a strong female leader? That was more than a century in the making.

"She doesn't have the stamina..."
"She's too weak..."
"Do you think she'll get world leaders to listen to her...?"
 
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