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The Trump Presidency

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Fast Eddie B said:
How in the world did you get there from my assertion that my Trump-voting friends were not stupid?
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It was addressing your false equivalency assertion that voting for Clinton could be seen by some as equal evidence of stupidity.

The stupidity of voting for Trump is on a whole different scale from the stupidity of voting for a candidate from the other side that one doesn't want to see elected.

If a person paid no attention to Trump or the election except to be a low information voter, I suppose that says more about their values than stupidity. I would hope that now that they see what they got for that vote they would have changed that POV by now.
 
Are all Trump voters racists? No. Some are, some aren't. But more racists voted for Trump.
Are all Trump voters sexist? No. Some are, some aren't. But more sexists voted for Trump.
Are all Trump voters Islamophobes? No. Some are, some aren't. But more Islamophobes voted for Trump.
Are all Trump voters homophobes? No. Some are, some aren't. But more homophobes voted for Trump.
Are all Trump voters xenophobes? No. Some are, some aren't. But more xenophobes voted for Trump.
Are all Trump voters stupid? No. Some are, some aren't. But they all did something stupid when they voted for Trump.
 
Rather than accuse them off stupidity, one might have to consider education and critical thinking skills.

My mother among others who strongly support Trump. She gets almost all her information from conservative talk radio, Breitbert and similar web sites, and Fox News. She is surrounded by people who reinforce her opinion. Many people don't challenge themselves by reading contrary views to their own but I believe Trump supporters have taken this to a different level.

I also agree with Trebuchet that there are multiple motivations.


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many people voted for Trump strategically, either to weaken Clinton or to force a shift in how the government works by throwing an Orange spanner into the machine.
These people aren't necessarily stupid, but they are incredibly reckless.

People who voted fro Trump believing that Trump would make a decent or even great president are so massively deluded that only stupidity is an explanation for it.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
many people voted for Trump strategically, either to weaken Clinton or to force a shift in how the government works by throwing an Orange spanner into the machine.
These people aren't necessarily stupid, but they are incredibly reckless.

People who voted fro Trump believing that Trump would make a decent or even great president are so massively deluded that only stupidity is an explanation for it.
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I agree!! Trump has degraded relations with our allies and NATO, and has been reckless in the way he does business, which is not good for America. China and Russia are now taking advantage of Trump's recklessness and stupidity.

Trump’s ‘America First’ Policy Will Give China a Big Edge Over America

The world turned upside-down last week when, within just seven days, the United States and China each reversed a posture they held for the past 70 years.

In his inaugural address, U.S. President Donald Trump announced his newest slogan, “America First,” which effectively withdraws the nation from its global leadership role. Meanwhile, China is stepping up as the new leader of world economic order as President Xi Jinping accelerates China’s efforts to do business with the world, albeit one where it writes the rules to its own benefit. The consequences of these sudden changes will be profound and far-reaching with uncertain outcomes.

http://fortune.com/2017/01/27/donald-trump-china-america-first/
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Stacko said:
At that point only an idiot, bigot and/or the willfully ignorant could vote for him.
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Given that the left had tarred us all as idiotic ignorant bigots long since, what do you imagine this condemnation achieves?

Remember BusHitler? Where do you go from frickin Hitler? Is Trump supposed to be Double Hitler? Hitler 3000?
 
Babbylonian said:
That they might be intelligent but completely amoral misogynist greedheads?
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I have an intelligent Republican friend who's critical thinking ability seems to disappear when it comes to politics. Presenting an article that describes a woman who had trouble with a miscalibrated voting machine, but managed to vote for the candidate that they wanted anyways and informed the staff so that they could recalibrate it right after is not evidence for massive voter fraud, after all. No need to invoke amoral, misogynist, or greedhead. Lack of paying attention to their own biases and no problem with trusting their initial impressions over substantial evidence to the contrary would probably be fairer criticism.
 
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I think that the Democratic Party needs to be very careful now - Trump was started "winning" (though I think the U.S. as a whole will lose badly as a result).

He's got a partial reversal of his "Muslim travel ban". For him this is a win-win. If there are no Islamic terrorist attacks in the U.S. then it's working and if there are it shows how dangerous all Muslims are and how even more extreme measures are needed :rolleyes:

He seems to have his ducks in a row regarding the repeal and replacement of the ACA. Yes it'll be much worse for millions who end up with effectively useless insurance or no insurance but there'll be lower premiums (for useless coverage, but people don't seem to care about that until too late) and tax cuts.

In other words, he (or his people) have learned how to get things done. Expect significant (and undeserved) bumps in his approval rating :mad:
 
Fast Eddie B said:
My guess?

Something about the appeal of authoritarianism and populism when packaged in a certain fashion. By what I would label a demagogue. And there's no denying it appealed to a wide swath of America's population.

It has a long history, and Trump's mannerisms and delivery still evoke comparisons to Mussolini, in my mind.

To dismiss his supporters as stupid or racist or misogynistic is to gloss over what really went on. It may be satisfying, but is overly simplistic.
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A demagogue, by definition, exploits the ignorance, prejudice and emotions of the crowd he addresses. Given that you, imo rightly, label Trump this way, I am not quite sure how you're not arriving at a conclusion that stupidity or racism played a part in the decisions of your friends to vote for him.

My brother is an extremely bright guy. Plenty of academic accolades, a very successful law career, devout born-again christian. I could never understand it. There are people who might label him stupid just for this, but I know he isn't.
 
TofuFighter said:
A demagogue, by definition, exploits the ignorance, prejudice and emotions of the crowd he addresses. Given that you, imo rightly, label Trump this way, I am not quite sure how you're not arriving at a conclusion that stupidity or racism played a part in the decisions of your friends to vote for him.

My brother is an extremely bright guy. Plenty of academic accolades, a very successful law career, devout born-again christian. I could never understand it. There are people who might label him stupid just for this, but I know he isn't.
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It doesn't have to be an either/or, all or nothing condition. (Although it can be, sometimes.)

People are perfectly capable of being smart about some things and stupid about others.

Although being stupid enough to have voted for Trump (assuming they aren't bigots) does tend to test the plausibility of that claim, I admit.
 
quadraginta said:
It doesn't have to be an either/or, all or nothing condition. (Although it can be, sometimes.)

People are perfectly capable of being smart about some things and stupid about others.

Although being stupid enough to have voted for Trump (assuming they aren't bigots) does tend to test the plausibility of that claim, I admit.
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"But Hillary!"
 
Aridas said:
"But Hillary!"
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It's a more valid point than you might think. Not all of the blame for the demonisation of Hillary can be laid at Trump's door. In some people's minds, any vote other than for Hillary was a valid one.

All of this has been discussed before though. I guess it's still a little unbelievable, but it seems to be a touch more rational now.
 
TofuFighter said:
It's a more valid point than you might think. Not all of the blame for the demonisation of Hillary can be laid at Trump's door. In some people's minds, any vote other than for Hillary was a valid one.

All of this has been discussed before though. I guess it's still a little unbelievable, but it seems to be a touch more rational now.
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More than I think? Rather, that was actually a fair part of the point. It was indeed an acknowledgement that a number of those who voted for Trump were voting against Hillary, more than anything. Some of them even did have legitimate concerns, of which there were a number. The actually sad thing about voting for Trump because of those concerns, though, is that Trump is actually much worse in most of the ways that Hillary was bad... and that should have been pretty obvious throughout the campaign. There was a lot of false equivalence going around, regardless, and it's still somewhat sad how "But Hillary" is still being used to justify Trump doing worse.
 
The people I know who voted for Trump are pretty reactionary. They're nostalgic for the America they think they remember and they want to go back to it. As far as I can tell, that's really about it. Some of them have become disillusioned, they say, "He's no different."
 
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