Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[The Don]

Completely different subject. I didn't say anything about trickle-down. I would start with tax cuts for low to middle earners, say by raising the threshold for income tax to £20k or £25k, and/ or by cutting VAT.

The difficulty is making this revenue neutral - unless of course you're in favour of increasing the deficit.

Can you remember the 70s? There was a really big deal back then, with punitive tax rates (97%) driving the Brain Drain. One of the national papers had a headline "Last one out turn out the lights" or similar. Anyone with an education or who ran a business did their best to get out of the country. Unemployment was 2 million and rising.

Then again marginal tax rates were equally high in the 1960's when the economy was apparently going gangbusters and London was swinging. The Beatles even sang about it.

If Corbyn and his supporters want to revisit this experiment, they will ruin the country, again. Try recruiting doctors here if they have to pay 50% tax rates when abroad they might pay 25%. "Tax the rich" is easy to say (and they are taxed already anyway), and "tax cuts for the rich" is the cheapest of cheap shots to chuck around....and both slogans reveal economic illiteracy.

Which countries have marginal tax rates that low ?

Of course even if your marginal tax rate is higher, that may be more than offset by higher wages. 50% of £100k is more than 75% of £50k (ignoring the fact that both are marginal rates).

 

[baron]

But the funniest bit has been watching The Guardian's political commentators eating so much humble pie over Corbyn that our imports of humble pie are posing a serious threat to the health of the UK economy.

Surely Corbyn would need to defy expectations and actually achieve something for this to be true? He's no less incompetent and two-faced than he was 12 months ago.

 

[GlennB]

Surely Corbyn would need to defy expectations and actually achieve something for this to be true? He's no less incompetent and two-faced than he was 12 months ago.

Well, the expectation in most parts was that Labour would be slaughtered and reduced to a rump for a decade, so there's that.

In the meantime the Labour campaign proved hugely popular and denied the Tories even the majority they were already holding, so there's that too.

And then there's the fact that the Tories are scared ****less of another election soon, as they rightly fear they'd do even worse.

My idea of 'incompetent' is the Tory manifesto and campaign, compared to which Corbyn's efforts look positively stellar.

 

[baron]

Well, the expectation in most parts was that Labour would be slaughtered and reduced to a rump for a decade, so there's that.

In the meantime the Labour campaign proved hugely popular and denied the Tories even the majority they were already holding, so there's that too.

And then there's the fact that the Tories are scared ****less of another election soon, as they rightly fear they'd do even worse.

My idea of 'incompetent' is the Tory manifesto and campaign, compared to which Corbyn's efforts look positively stellar.

Which kind of proves my point. Corbyn lost an election, by some margin, against one of the worst Conservative campaigns in living memory, yet his incompetence is so legendary that this is heralded as a great success.

 

[GlennB]

Which kind of proves my point. Corbyn lost an election, by some margin, against one of the worst Conservative campaigns in living memory, yet his incompetence is so legendary that this is heralded as a great success.

The concepts of win and lose were discussed here a while back. If you (Theresa May and her party, that is) pay £100 to enter a competition, emerge the leader, but only get a payout of £60 then can you claim to have won? I'd say they lost heavily, as merely crossing the line first can have awful consequences in politics and this is one of those times. Ever heard the expression "This would be a good election to lose"?

So they won in one sense of the word, it's true, but the word has more than one sense. Meanwhile Labour invested much less but made a good profit.

And I missed a few plus points in the little list above:

Corbyn's rebellious MPs are now thoroughly onside.

Labour mobilised the youth vote, and it will stay mobilised and grow as more people cross into voting age.

 

[Matthew Best]

The concepts of win and lose were discussed here a while back. If you (Theresa May and her party, that is) pay £100 to enter a competition, emerge the leader, but only get a payout of £60 then can you claim to have won? I'd say they lost heavily, ...

And, what's more, lost against a Labour leader whose incompetence is "legendary". What does that say for Mrs T2?

 

[Garrison]

Surely Corbyn would need to defy expectations and actually achieve something for this to be true? He's no less incompetent and two-faced than he was 12 months ago.

Let's see if someone were to have said this at the beginning of the campaign:

I feel sorry for the traditional Labour voters. First they see the party taken over by an incompetent socialist, now they'll see their party effectively destroyed and pushed out of Westminster.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11803776

Then surely they would have to admit that Corbyn had defied expectations, unless they were completely intellectually dishonest of course, then they would just move the goalposts and hope no one found what they previously said...

 

[baron]

Let's see if someone were to have said this at the beginning of the campaign:


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11803776

Then surely they would have to admit that Corbyn had defied expectations, unless they were completely intellectually dishonest of course, then they would just move the goalposts and hope no one found what they previously said...

Or 'they' could try reading the sentence with particular relation to the 'and'. Defy expectations and actually achieve something, which means that he did defy expectations but achieved nothing. Sorry that your in-depth research amounted to nothing in the end.

 

[Garrison]

Or 'they' could try reading the sentence with particular relation to the 'and'. Defy expectations and actually achieve something, which means that he did defy expectations but achieved nothing. Sorry that your in-depth research amounted to nothing in the end.

So 30 more seats and a significantly increased vote is now nothing? Wow imagine what you would be saying about a party leader who actually lost seats...

 

[GlennB]

Or 'they' could try reading the sentence with particular relation to the 'and'. Defy expectations and actually achieve something, which means that he did defy expectations but achieved nothing. Sorry that your in-depth research amounted to nothing in the end.

I've listed several achievements but you presumably disagree with my assessment. It's about time for you to make some suggestions about what can be classed as 'an achievement', otherwise it looks like you're just hiding behind syntactic quibbles to defend your position.

 

[baron]

I've listed several achievements but you presumably disagree with my assessment. It's about time for you to make some suggestions about what can be classed as 'an achievement', otherwise it looks like you're just hiding behind syntactic quibbles to defend your position.

Hmm, let me think about what could be classed as an achievement. It's a tricky one. Could it be losing the election to the Conservatives by 56 seats? I don't think so. Could it be gaining 30 seats on the 2015 result, the worst Labour performance since 1983? No, not that. Could it be, you know, winning the election? Now, there's a thought...

 

[GlennB]

Hmm, let me think about what could be classed as an achievement. It's a tricky one. Could it be losing the election to the Conservatives by 56 seats? I don't think so. Could it be gaining 30 seats on the 2015 result, the worst Labour performance since 1983? No, not that. Could it be, you know, winning the election? Now, there's a thought...

Which leaves us having to conclude that winning the election is the only achievement worthy of the name, in your opinion. Unless there are others you've chosen not to mention.

 

[baron]

Which leaves us having to conclude that winning the election is the only achievement worthy of the name, in your opinion. Unless there are others you've chosen not to mention.

Well, he managed eventually to wear a tie and forced himself to endure the presence of the Queen without vomiting, so it's not like I'm saying he achieved nothing.

 

[SusanB-M1]

Which kind of proves my point. Corbyn lost an election, by some margin, against one of the worst Conservative campaigns in living memory, yet his incompetence is so legendary that this is heralded as a great success.

Wellsaid! I did like the firm way that, on Wednesday, Theresa May made the point that Labour LOST the election!

 

[Pixel42]

On Have I Got News For You Ian Hislop described the election result as "Theresa May's humiliating victory".

 

[Garrison]

Wellsaid! I did like the firm way that, on Wednesday, Theresa May made the point that Labour LOST the election!

And so did May, unless anyone wants to class losing your working majority as a win?

 

[GlennB]

On Have I Got News For You Ian Hislop described the election result as "Theresa May's humiliating victory".

Which was a brilliant summary

 

[baron]

And so did May, unless anyone wants to class losing your working majority as a win?

So your argument has changed from celebrating Corbyn's great victory to decrying May's performance. Very wise.

 

[Garrison]

So your argument has changed from celebrating Corbyn's great victory to decrying May's performance. Very wise.

If you could just point to the post where I 'celebrated' anything? You know like the one where you predicted Labour being pushed out of parliament and have been moving the goalposts ever since to defend?

 

[baron]

If you could just point to the post where I 'celebrated' anything? You know like the one where you predicted Labour being pushed out of parliament and have been moving the goalposts ever since to defend?

The victory isn't Corbyn's, it was May's disastrous, arrogant campaign that allowed Labour to gain 30 seats. Without that I would have been right.