Brexit: Now What? Part III

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3point14 said:
Anyone that relied on the media to inform them was uninformed.

I still haven't found one positive thing about the UK leaving the EU. If that's the case, and I challenge you to find something positive, and what was termed 'project fear' is proving to be accurate then yes, people that voted to leave voted on the back of poor or inco0mplete information.
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What do you mean?

We are able to enact immigration legislation that Trump would be proud of, roll back ECHR protections to whatever third world level we like and according to our new environment minister we can scale back those restrictions to the same level as India. What's not to like?
 
Some Brexit good news at last, Prince Andrew the Duke of York has advised businesses to take advantage of new business opportunities outside the EU.

Of course there's no indication why advances made post-Brexit will be any better received or why EU membership stopped these advances being made in the past. IMO it's more a case of UK businesses having to do business elsewhere - with no indication whether that business will be profitable.

"We've been concentrating on 27 countries, if you take that as an internal market.

"There's an external market that's a lot bigger, and many businesses hadn't looked over that garden fence to some extent.

"And in my experience recently, businesses that look over the garden fence have gone: "Hmm, [the] grass is not quite as dark and unforgiving as you might expect.
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Stirring words indeed :rolleyes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40296649
 
ohms said:
The UK has apparently reversed it's position and agreed to go with the EU timetable:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303761

Seems that the EU is a bit more prepared than the UK...
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I'm shocked, I tells you.

All those that planned the leaving who then wanted those who wanted to remain to sort it all out for them were *********** incompetent liars in the first place. I would no more expect them to have a viable plan now than I did a year ago.

Cockwombles.
 
3point14 said:
I'm shocked, I tells you.

All those that planned the leaving who then wanted those who wanted to remain to sort it all out for them were *********** incompetent liars in the first place. I would no more expect them to have a viable plan now than I did a year ago.

Cockwombles.
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It's an absolute ******** so far. Not unexpectedly. Of course the people who wanted it continue to have Euroboners at the prospect of taking back control even though it's increasingly being shown to be an expensive and nonsense vanity project for a few right wing clowns.
 
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From CNN today:

Brexit Secretary David Davis arrived in Brussels on Monday to launch talks he hoped would produce a "new, deep and special partnership" with the EU in the interest of Britons and all Europeans.

Beaming as he met the European Union's chief negotiator Michel Barnier at the EU executive's Berlaymont headquarters, the veteran campaigner for Britain to quit the bloc said he aimed for a "positive and constructive" tone in the talks, adding: "There is more that unites us than divides us."
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What is it with the Tories? Divorcees do not retain conjugal privileges. Must be those alt-right shibboleths like "sovereignty" still clouding all judgment. Does one constituency lose sovereignty when the nation votes? Then neither did the UK when part of a suprastate in which it had proportional representation. This very sad showing by the Tories, essentially claiming the rights to the having and eating of cake, is getting quite odd when repeated so late in the game. You sign your divorce papers, then maybe spend time repairing relations to see if you can have tea every other month to discuss the weather. Kissy-kissy statements in divorce court are out of place.

Unless, of course, this is the prelude to recognition of infidelity and renewed courtship in earnest to restore the relation. Otherwise, odd.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
From CNN today:



What is it with the Tories? Divorcees do not retain conjugal privileges. Must be those alt-right shibboleths like "sovereignty" still clouding all judgment. Does one constituency lose sovereignty when the nation votes? Then neither did the UK when part of a suprastate in which it had proportional representation. This very sad showing by the Tories, essentially claiming the rights to the having and eating of cake, is getting quite odd when repeated so late in the game. You sign your divorce papers, then maybe spend time repairing relations to see if you can have tea every other month to discuss the weather. Kissy-kissy statements in divorce court are out of place.

Unless, of course, this is the prelude to recognition of infidelity and renewed courtship in earnest to restore the relation. Otherwise, odd.
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What a ********, appropriating the words of Jo Cox who, lest we forget, was killed during the referendum campaign :mad:

IMO this is all part of the "blame the foreigners" policy which will follow our disastrous Brexit negotiations - we were ready to be friendly but those big foreign meanies refused to allow us access to the EU market whilst we restrict movement of EU nationals, opt out of the EHCR and refuse to pay what's owed :rolleyes:
 
Hlafordlaes said:
......What is it with the Tories?........
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What is it with people who can't just read words and accept them at face value?There is absolutely nothing sinister or having-your-cake-and-eating it about saying "we're leaving the EU, but hope to forge a new and long lasting deep relationship with the group we are leaving". It's sad that some people have got so bitter and twisted about this whole issue that even the blandest of bland statements such as this can lead to assinine anti-Tory rants.
 
MikeG said:
What is it with people who can't just read words and accept them at face value?There is absolutely nothing sinister or having-your-cake-and-eating it about saying "we're leaving the EU, but hope to forge a new and long lasting deep relationship with the group we are leaving". It's sad that some people have got so bitter and twisted about this whole issue that even the blandest of bland statements such as this can lead to assinine anti-Tory rants.
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The UK had a long lasting deep relationship with the EU. It's called membership. And if you leave, there's nothing you can expect.

And, to expand Hlafordlaes' analogy with a divorce of a married couple: this was an abusive relationship. A relationship in which the UK was the abuser, beating up the rest of the EU while shouting "I want my money back!". A relationship in which the UK got a massive 30% rebate on their contributions, and in which the UK got opt-outs for large parts of EU policy, such as Schengen, the Euro and the Social Charter (the latter which Blair, to his credit, opted in again). When Cameron, early 2016, went to the EU to negotiate even more exceptions for the UK, there was nothing left to reasonably give. The rest was thoroughly fed up with the UK always wanting to be the special kid.

To put it in a nutshell: the UK was the abuser in this relationship, and when the rest of the EU didn't put up anymore with the abuse, the UK left in a huff. That's how politically informed people in the 27 see it. But I'm afraid that much of the British public, especially the Sun and Daily Mail readers, don't appreciate that.
 
MikeG said:
What is it with people who can't just read words and accept them at face value?There is absolutely nothing sinister or having-your-cake-and-eating it about saying "we're leaving the EU, but hope to forge a new and long lasting deep relationship with the group we are leaving". It's sad that some people have got so bitter and twisted about this whole issue that even the blandest of bland statements such as this can lead to assinine anti-Tory rants.
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Whatever. I see Michel Barnier paraphrased my remarks during the PC today.

Back when all this started I gave my formal views on what it means for European security, and how destabilizing it was/is at a bad time - a disaster of epic proportions. I've also recently expressed the view that post-Brexit there might be rapprochement, even using the situation to create framework agreements of more general use. However, I am also of the very fair view that Brexit, to have any meaning, means first of all exit, especially from the point of view of those who so voted, followed by new beginnings whose only condition is that they be of strictly mutual interest. And that level of interest is what seems highly unlikely to be business-as-usual from the EU perspective, yet this is often the claim by the, yes, now desperately duplicitous Tories. The writing is on the wall in neon lights, dude.
 
Apparently talks with the DUP are on a knife edge and they are shocked by the low levels of negotiation experience in Mays team. That sounds positive for Brexit talks then.
 
Well, ddt, Hlafordlaes......What could David Davis have said in his opening remarks that wouldn't have got you turning puce? Think of some bland nothingness that you couldn't possibly criticise. Maybe someone with some perspective will then be able to critique your answer. Faced with the least offensive or loaded set of words I think it possible for Davis to utter you come up with a wtf-are-you-saying-you-moron type of response, so let's see how well you do yourselves.
 
MikeG said:
Well, ddt, Hlafordlaes......What could David Davis have said in his opening remarks that wouldn't have got you turning puce? Think of some bland nothingness that you couldn't possibly criticise. Maybe someone with some perspective will then be able to critique your answer. Faced with the least offensive or loaded set of words I think it possible for Davis to utter you come up with a wtf-are-you-saying-you-moron type of response, so let's see how well you do yourselves.
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Davis is a Tory, therefore Davis is either evil, or stupid,or a combination of both. I think that about covers it....
 
dudalb said:
Davis is a Tory, therefore Davis is either evil, or stupid,or a combination of both. I think that about covers it....
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No, it only half covers it. Don't forget that all Tories also hate wogs, women, poofs and the Irish. Obviously.
 
MikeG said:
No, it only half covers it. Don't forget that all Tories also hate wogs, women, poofs and the Irish. Obviously.
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I think that comes under the heading of "Evil".

But this whole "Everybody on the opposite side it Evil" attitude potentially dangerous. I give you the shootings in DC last week as an example.
 
MikeG said:
No, it only half covers it. Don't forget that all Tories also hate wogs, women, poofs and the Irish. Obviously.
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I see you've given up even the pretence of reasoned argument in defending the May administration. Pity, because there are plenty of specifics to consider. But it really is a complete mess, so maybe your strategy really is the best line of defence currently available.

Now if you want to keep the Tories free from suspicion of being religious and sexual bigots, may I suggest advising them not to put their government under an obligation to show "respect" to the DUP. because that outfit really is suspected of hating wogs, women, poofs and the Irish; and of being sectarian religious bigots, creationists, climate change denialists and financial scammers in addition to these other flaws.
 
Craig B said:
I see you've given up even the pretence of reasoned argument in defending the May administration. Pity......
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Beautiful! Just lovely. You attack me for quoting back The Don's words smearing all conservatives, but didn't comment at all when he used them in earnest. This really is turning into the pit where critical thinking went to die.
 
MikeG said:
Beautiful! Just lovely. You attack me for quoting back The Don's words smearing all conservatives, but didn't comment at all when he used them in earnest. This really is turning into the pit where critical thinking went to die.
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I did ?

You're going to have to remind me of where I did that.

I do remember saying that the Conservatives want to take us back to the 50's when blacks, poofs and Irish knew their place and I've repeatedly referred to the Daily Mail and Daily Express who IMO act as the mouthpieces for the core of Conservative support - and the xenophobic, racist and homophobic content of those rags.

OTOH I'm pretty sure that I haven't said that every single Conservative Party member or every single Conservative Party supporter or every single Conservative Party voter is racist . I have however suggested that xenophobia, racism and homophobia is rife in the Conservative Party that these views have a tangible impact on Conservative Party policy.

It's also the reason IMO why the DUP have found it acceptable to consider a supply and confidence relationship with The Conservative Party.
 
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