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UK General Election

Are you starting to come round to the idea that Theresa May is not a fluffy little centrist as she's been painted but actually is either a nasty little piece of work or at least quite happy to play along with being one if it helps her win a few votes?

I'm not sure I've ever claimed that Theresa May is a centreist. I have claimed that she represents the centre of her party but the centre of a (IMO increasingly) right wing party is right of centre.

Indeed various posters have accused me of posting while drunk and/or using lazy stereotypes of the Conservative Party so I don't think I'm being over-flattering about them.
 
Give me your argument and stop playing silly games.

You could of course have answered the question. The Tory official policy on Brexit was 'we actually think staying in the EU is a good idea but we are too scared to say that because our voters are all a bit racist and want the foreigners out so we will sidestep the hard conversation and just completely abdicate responsibility for it by offering a referendum to the public in which half our party will lie their faces off and try to keep just enough distance between us and UKIP that we can keep their toxic stench off of us while still giving a nod and a wink to the Union Jack underpant wearers that we all know what we want really while the other half will attempt to defend the EU while still blaming the immigrants for everything wrong with the country. We are quite prepared to gamble with the lives of immigrants in the UK to pander to the bigots because frankly we couldn't care less about them. And if the bigots win we will go all-in with them because ... well because we can.'
 
...the what? :eek:

From Wiki:

The Conservative Private Members' Committee (known informally as the 1922 Committee) is the parliamentary group for the Conservative Party in the UK House of Commons. The committee, consisting of all Conservative backbencher MPs, meets weekly while the parliament is in session and provides a way for backbenchers to co-ordinate and discuss their views based on their constituents' and their personal views independently of frontbenchers. Its executive membership and officers are by consensus limited to backbench MPs only, although since 2010 frontbench Conservative MPs have an open invitation to attend meetings. The committee can also play an important role in choosing the party leader (and thus Prime Minister when the Conservatives are in government). The group was formed in 1923 but first became important after 1940. It is generally closely related to the leadership and under the control of party whips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1922_Committee
 
No, not that... what's britex? Is that the posh version of brexit?

Oops sorry, I misunderstood :o

It's too perfect:

Britex is internationally recognised as one of the world’s most innovative designers and fabricators of stainless steel products, commercial grade plumbing fixtures and architectural fittings. Many of our world-first product design innovations are today commonplace amongst stainless steel fixtures available around the world.

http://www.britex.com.au/

I think dudalb is saying that we're going down the pan ;)
 
Look at the core of the Conservative Party and the newspapers that reflect the views of that core, the Daily Mail and the Daily Express and you may think it's a lazy caricature, but that doesn't mean it's inaccurate.

...and yet Theresa has....

  • Re-introduced the Board of Trade - throwback to the days of Empire


  • Presumably this means they are bringing back slavery, or something. Or not?

    [*]Talked about tight immigration controls

    I don't like their immigration controls, particularly the rules on how much someone must earn to be able to let their foreign spouse settle in the UK. This would be a good enough reason for me not to vote for them, aside from the fact that I have no vote, obviously.

    [*]Set her sights on a diamond-hard Brexit where the UK will be "free" of the ECHR

    I don't have a problem with the UK being responsible for its own commitment to human rights. In fact, it is rather embarrassing to think that the UK cannot be trusted and must be watched over to keep it from being naughty.

    [*]Formed an alliance with the DUP, a party which is vehemently anti-LBGT

    Yes, I know. This is naked and desperate opportunism and extremely unfortunate for them given their jibes about Corbyn being a terrorist sympathizer. I notice that their ministers have even been talking up the DUP's willingness to be conciliatory by...working with Sinn Fein. It makes a mockery of their campaigning and they deserve to be mocked for it. But it is not the same as a desire go back to the 1950s and start using all manner of racist epithets.


    [*]Has pandered to the racists and xenophobes who voted UKIP (and who formed the core of those who voted Leave)

    We know there were a lot of reasons for voting Leave. Some of those were no doubt held by racists and xenophobes. But I notice that UKIP did not become, as some feared, a new form of BNP, and natural home for the racists and the xenophobes. Once the Party got what it campaigned for, it utterly collapsed, and the fortunes of the other parties rose with it (Labour and Lib Dems). In fact, notice that when UKIP was at its peak, the Tories won a majority of seats, and when its support shrank so did the proportion of Tory seats. So that does not suggest the Tories successfully recruited all the UKIP vote.

    [*]Is removing the safety net for the disabled

Again, not pleasant. But not as you caricature it - as a racist party.[/QUOTE]
 
The Conservative Party's willingness to form an alliance with a group like this demonstrates that Cameron's attempt to move the Conservatives back to the centre is well and truly over and that being too right wing (like UKIP) is only an issue to the Conservatives if you're in a position to nick votes from them ;)

And Labour's discussions with the DUP in 2010 and 2015 show what?
 
Presumably this means they are bringing back slavery, or something. Or not?

What a ridiculous claim, slavery was abolished in the British Empire nearly 200 years ago. What it does show is IMO an Anglo-centric world view dating back to the end of empire.

I don't like their immigration controls, particularly the rules on how much someone must earn to be able to let their foreign spouse settle in the UK. This would be a good enough reason for me not to vote for them, aside from the fact that I have no vote, obviously.

And as I have repeatedly said, the rhetoric is about Muslims, other brown and black people and Eastern Europeans. If there is criticism of the number of Scandinavians, Australians, New Zealanders or (white) South Africans coming over in "swarms" then I've missed it.

I don't have a problem with the UK being responsible for its own commitment to human rights. In fact, it is rather embarrassing to think that the UK cannot be trusted and must be watched over to keep it from being naughty.

I do. Theresa May's first reaction to the London and Manchester terrorist attacks was to threaten to get rid of human rights. Indeed the Conservatives' first reaction to any perceived crisis is to curtail or get rid of people's rights whether its the right to strike, the right to assemble, people's right to claim disability benefits....the list goes on.

Yes, I know. This is naked and desperate opportunism and extremely unfortunate for them given their jibes about Corbyn being a terrorist sympathizer. I notice that their ministers have even been talking up the DUP's willingness to be conciliatory by...working with Sinn Fein. It makes a mockery of their campaigning and they deserve to be mocked for it. But it is not the same as a desire go back to the 1950s and start using all manner of racist epithets.

The Conservative base is profoundly racist and/or xenophobic. Look at the way that the "house" newspapers, the Daily Mail and Daily Express report on matters or race and immigration.

Perhaps it's not the spit-in-the-corners-of-the-mouth invective employed by the likes of the BNP and EDL but there's a long-standing distrust of, and/or disdain for, foreigners especially brown ones or ones that speak finny.

We know there were a lot of reasons for voting Leave. Some of those were no doubt held by racists and xenophobes. But I notice that UKIP did not become, as some feared, a new form of BNP, and natural home for the racists and the xenophobes. Once the Party got what it campaigned for, it utterly collapsed, and the fortunes of the other parties rose with it (Labour and Lib Dems). In fact, notice that when UKIP was at its peak, the Tories won a majority of seats, and when its support shrank so did the proportion of Tory seats. So that does not suggest the Tories successfully recruited all the UKIP vote.

....and the racists and xenophobes who supported UKIP largely returned to their natural home, the Conservative Party - at least that's what the voting share appeared to show.

Again, not pleasant. But not as you caricature it - as a racist party.

It's still a party full of racists and xenophobes, or more particularly a party which wants a return to the days where white people didn't have to worry about being PC, were completely in charge (as opposed to being almost completely in charge), where you didn't have to encounter brown faces or strange accents when going about their business.

Maybe it's not the kind of hard racism that wants them all "packed off to bongo-bongo land" but it would like them quietly removed from sight along with the gays, the poor, the disabled and anyone else who they'd prefer not to have to deal with.
 
And Labour's discussions with the DUP in 2010 and 2015 show what?

...that Labour weren't willing to compromise their principles sufficiently to gain the support of the DUP or that the DUP thought they were insufficiently alike whereas The Conservative Party is a natural fit ?
 
What a ridiculous claim, slavery was abolished in the British Empire nearly 200 years ago.

Yes, I know. So what heinous thing does it show?

What it does show is IMO an Anglo-centric world view dating back to the end of empire.

Please explain why this is supposed to be a bad thing. Specifically how it shows some kind of latent racism. I don't think it is a surprise that a country puts itself at the centre of its dealings with the outside world.
 
I very much doubt the union will have anything to do with gay marriage or abortion or any of the DUP policies, it will be primarily about money and the Irish border. That doesn't excuse the Conservatives cosying up to such religious nutters but there's no point getting hysterical about it.
 
The Conservative base is profoundly racist and/or xenophobic.

Not supported by data:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/12/14/prejudice-data/

Indeed the Conservatives' first reaction to any perceived crisis is to curtail or get rid of people's rights

42 days detention without trial?

and the racists and xenophobes who supported UKIP largely returned to their natural home

Not supported by data - many also returned to Labour.

You seem to be having an odd day - normally your political posts show far more nuance and understanding.
 
...that Labour weren't willing to compromise their principles sufficiently to gain the support of the DUP or that the DUP thought they were insufficiently alike whereas The Conservative Party is a natural fit ?

No, the numbers didn't stack up, nothing to do with principles.
 
No, the numbers didn't stack up, nothing to do with principles.

Evidence ?

Were the numbers financial (i.e. the DUP couldn't extort enough extra money from the Labour Party) or electoral (even with DUP support, the Labour Party wasn't in a position to form a government) ?
 
I very much doubt the union will have anything to do with gay marriage or abortion or any of the DUP policies, it will be primarily about money and the Irish border.

I disagree. Although I do not think the DUP will be seeking a return to gay marriage being illegal in the rest of the UK, part of their price IMO will be that they will be able to keep their socially repressive policies in place in NI without receiving any pressure from Westminster.

That doesn't excuse the Conservatives cosying up to such religious nutters but there's no point getting hysterical about it.

.....I'm sure a hypothetical where the Labour Party partnered with Sinn Fein would have been hunky-dory too. :rolleyes:

You are right that there's no point getting hysterical but there is point in making it clear that the DUP are terrorist-supporting religious fundamentalist bigots and any influence they have on government policy is likely to be malign.
 
Were the numbers financial (i.e. the DUP couldn't extort enough extra money from the Labour Party) or electoral (even with DUP support, the Labour Party wasn't in a position to form a government) ?

The second.
 
Yes, I know. So what heinous thing does it show?

Please explain why this is supposed to be a bad thing. Specifically how it shows some kind of latent racism. I don't think it is a surprise that a country puts itself at the centre of its dealings with the outside world.

It shows a desire to return to the 1950s where Britain ruled over the rump of Empire. The Board of Trade isn't itself a racist move at all, it's just a move showing the lack of understanding of Britain's place in the world.
 
I disagree. Although I do not think the DUP will be seeking a return to gay marriage being illegal in the rest of the UK, part of their price IMO will be that they will be able to keep their socially repressive policies in place in NI without receiving any pressure from Westminster.

It's a devolved government, it's perfectly proper they should implement their own policies.

.....I'm sure a hypothetical where the Labour Party partnered with Sinn Fein would have been hunky-dory too. :rolleyes:

A partnership with Sinn Fein would be the least of our problems with a Corbyn-led government. Indeed, Sinn Fein would probably moderate the government's stance.

You are right that there's no point getting hysterical but there is point in making it clear that the DUP are terrorist-supporting religious fundamentalist bigots and any influence they have on government policy is likely to be malign.

Malign or non-existent, almost certainly the latter.
 

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