Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[Belz...]

Ignorance is truly bliss, eh?

Making stuff up doesn't change the fact that you're ignorant. It just covers it up in a veneer of certitude, which is even worse, because when you're sure that you have the answer you're no longer looking for it.

 

[Belz...]

This thread is about how the menorah was a pattern adopted, not the ark.

I'm explaining to you why your logic is wrong.

You don't need an alternative explanation as to how the shape came to be used to discard _your_ explanation.

At least show _some_ ability to be reasonable and rational.

 

[Belz...]

But, by all means, continue to call Plato a liar...

Did you call him a liar when you said that he was wrong about the size, location and appearance of Atlantis even though you called him a teacher who couldn't afford to be wrong because of his reputation?

 

[SOdhner]

This thread is about how the menorah was a pattern adopted, not the ark.

It is absolutely a fair comparison. After all, haven't rectangular shapes been drawn or carved in various locations? And you don't KNOW where the shape of the Ark of the Covenant came from... and... hey! There's even a biblical legend about a square city! So that city must have been real and been in (rolls dice...) South America because there are ruins there! And the Jewish people heard about it and that's why the Ark was that shape!

THIS IS EQUIVALENT TO YOUR ARGUMENT.

 

[Cervelo]

Ignorance is truly bliss, eh?

Ya got that right.....but it's a different story when it exposes itself with just about every post....LMAO!

 

[King of the Americas]

It is absolutely a fair comparison. After all, haven't rectangular shapes been drawn or carved in various locations? And you don't KNOW where the shape of the Ark of the Covenant came from... and... hey! There's even a biblical legend about a square city! So that city must have been real and been in (rolls dice...) South America because there are ruins there! And the Jewish people heard about it and that's why the Ark was that shape!

THIS IS EQUIVALENT TO YOUR ARGUMENT.

Start a thread about the Ark, present evidence, and I'd be happy to discuss its origins, THERE.

 

[Belz...]

Start a thread about the Ark, present evidence, and I'd be happy to discuss its origins, THERE.

Why are you so afraid to address problems with your argument?

 

[King of the Americas]

Why are you so afraid to address problems with your argument?

Asking you to create your own thread, wherein I will discuss the Ark's origins, isn't my being afraid of anything...

 

[Belz...]

Asking you to create your own thread, wherein I will discuss the Ark's origins, isn't my being afraid of anything...

You don't own this thread, mister. Using an analogy to illustrate the flaws in an argument is not off-topic, and you know it.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Still no word on how Plato is simultaneously correct about the existence of Atlantis because he is a trustworthy teacher, yet at the same time completely wrong about the size, location and dating because... reasons?

 

[TheSapient]

Please address the menorah, its origins, its changing nature, and the fact that NO ONE has yet offered ANY explanation, much less one superior to Cameron and National Geographic's theory.

But, by all means, continue to call Plato a liar...

Using fiction and metaphor is not "lying". Your confusion over something this simple is illustrative of your inability to understand how terrible your arguments have been.

 

[SOdhner]

Start a thread about the Ark, present evidence, and I'd be happy to discuss its origins, THERE.

1. This isn't something for another thread, this is an analogy showing how bad your theory is. You should address that, right here.

2. Even if I did start a new thread, I sincerely doubt you would be "happy to discuss" anything since you still haven't addressed the points I already brought up.

Do you have anything other than speculation to back this theory? Reminder, these are the things that your theory requires in order to be correct:

1. Plato to have been literally documenting historical fact rather than making up Atlantis as an allegory just as he did for so many other things (unless you're saying Er was a real person that actually traveled to the afterlife and then escaped to tell the tale?).

2. That some ruins on the coast of Spain are Atlantis even though they don't match the size, location, or shape described, and are in an area where the ocean wasn't rendered impossible to navigate.

3. That some extremely common shapes are a reference to Atlantis even though there's nothing actually linking them to the legend of Atlantis in any way and despite them not being found in a location that has any connection to Atlantis.

4. That some other common shapes are both a reference to Atlantis and the source for the design of the menorah even though they have no connection to either and there's no connection between Atlantis and the Jewish people.

5. That these symbols were made by Atlanteans, despite being in the wrong place and being the wrong age.

All of this asserted without any actual evidence and declared to be the "most plausible" explanation.

 

[Zivan]

So, you think the menorah was the first torch and nothing more? Why worship it, why did God say build this specific graven image? Why worship just a candle stick?

No one said it was the "first torch".

The menorah was not worshipped.

Why did tanakh say to build ALL THE OTHER ITEMS for the mishkan and temples? Same reason the menorah design was given.

None of the items had anything to do with a mythical city, Atlantis. (And, once again, the mishkan/temple menorah was NOT a candlestick).

Religious symbols have 'meanings'...they are tied to something important events, people, or places.

Do tell, what were the "meanings" for ALL THE OTHER objects that were made according to instructions in tanakh?

Because it was a pattern, based on BOTANY!!! The instructions given included, "branches", "stem/stalk", "almonds", "flowers".

Objection- Speculation

How adorable.

Did you READ the description in tanakh?

At all???

Do I need to spell it out for you?

Why 7, and why lose the 'lamp' in favor of candles?

You could, maybe, do a google search for "the number 7"???

It had sacred/mystical/magical meaning in the ancient world ("seven planets", constellations, etc.....) It still has "mystical/magical" meaning for some people today ("lucky seven").

The menorah was NOT "lost in favor of candles". The menorah was lost after the 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Google "Arch of Titus". Candles were NOT in use in the Near East in 70 CE.

In synagogues today the "ner tamid" is used as a memorial for the lost temple menorah. (Other menorot are used as decoration only).

Hey! The ner tamid is often round! Does that mean "Atlantis" as well???

You are confusing the 7 branch menorah, with a hanukiyah. They are NOT the same thing.

You don't seem Jewish....

[url]https://unitedwithisrael.org/the-menorah-vs-the-chanukiah/

What you think I "seem" to be is as accurate as your other speculations on this thread. I am israeli. I am jewish. I have been on archeaological digs in israel. I am not an archeaologist, but it is a popular hobby in israel.

And you are still CONFUSED about the difference between the 7-branch menorah and hanukiyot.

https://www.hanukkahfun.com/367/what-is-the-difference-between-a-hanukiah-and-a-menorah/

Please provide evidence of the "earliest carved etchings" that are NOT semi-circular.

Google "magdala stone". The image is elliptical.

 

[King of the Americas]

Still no word on how Plato is simultaneously correct about the existence of Atlantis because he is a trustworthy teacher, yet at the same time completely wrong about the size, location and dating because... reasons?

Because NO single source of history is sans errors.

An accurate historical account must be mined from the all available sources.

*I hate having to repeat myself...

 

[King of the Americas]

No one said it was the "first torch".

AGAIN, why did God say 'this' specific image? Why the pattern on the mount. Why THE specific image.

The menorah was not worshipped.

You're joking, right?

Why did tanakh say to build ALL THE OTHER ITEMS for the mishkan and temples? Same reason the menorah design was given.

No idea, I have not investigated them. I created this thread to discuss the menorah.

None of the items had anything to do with a mythical city, Atlantis. (And, once again, the mishkan/temple menorah was NOT a candlestick).

We are talking about the menorah, here, not the other items.

I am aware that the menorah WAS not a candle stick, but it is NOW.

Do tell, what were the "meanings" for ALL THE OTHER objects that were made according to instructions in tanakh?

Yawn... No thank you.

How adorable.

Did you READ the description in tanakh?

At all???

Do I need to spell it out for you?

Indeed, I listened to three different rabbis speak on the matter, and how the extra candles were added. The "7" ones are ONLY employed in the temple. Adding a candle or two meant you could use it outside the temple.

You could, maybe, do a google search for "the number 7"???

It had sacred/mystical/magical meaning in the ancient world ("seven planets", constellations, etc.....) It still has "mystical/magical" meaning for some people today ("lucky seven").

The menorah was NOT "lost in favor of candles". The menorah was lost after the 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Google "Arch of Titus". Candles were NOT in use in the Near East in 70 CE.

In synagogues today the "ner tamid" is used as a memorial for the lost temple menorah. (Other menorot are used as decoration only).

Hey! The ner tamid is often round! Does that mean "Atlantis" as well???

Yup, I got 'different' answers- planets, churches, the number of days that lamp burned.

I didn't say the lamp was lost. I said the menorah changed/evolved from lamps to candles, as evidence that it was so meaningless, that it could change.

What you think I "seem" to be is as accurate as your other speculations on this thread. I am israeli. I am jewish. I have been on archeaological digs in israel. I am not an archeaologist, but it is a popular hobby in israel.

And you are still CONFUSED about the difference between the 7-branch menorah and hanukiyot.

https://www.hanukkahfun.com/367/what-is-the-difference-between-a-hanukiah-and-a-menorah/

Awesome. So, inform everyone as to what the first "7" lamps represented?

Google "magdala stone". The image is elliptical.

Looks more like a circle than branches...but please do try to offer up another "early version" that is NOT semi-circular. That one's a fail.

 

[Craig4]

Please address the menorah, its origins, its changing nature, and the fact that NO ONE has yet offered ANY explanation, much less one superior to Cameron and National Geographic's theory.

But, by all means, continue to call Plato a liar...

Not having an alternate theory does nothing to make Cameron or you right about your Atlantis. Now, setting aside that we may not know the complete origins or the menorah, explain how you tied it to your Atlantis. Have you found coins engraved with the name Atlantis and the menorah? Have you looked to see how old or what research has been done on your site in Spain? You do realize that sunken ruins are all over the Mediterranean and Atlantic Coast of Europe right?

A Spanish "archeologist" found an engraving with ships on it...near the coast. Gosh must be Atlantis. No other place near the ocean with pictures of boats on it could be anything other than Atlantis. Seriously?

 

[Craig4]

AGAIN, why did God say 'this' specific image? Why the pattern on the mount. Why THE specific image.



You're joking, right?



No idea, I have not investigated them. I created this thread to discuss the menorah.



We are talking about the menorah, here, not the other items.

I am aware that the menorah WAS not a candle stick, but it is NOW.



Yawn... No thank you.



Indeed, I listened to three different rabbis speak on the matter, and how the extra candles were added. The "7" ones are ONLY employed in the temple. Adding a candle or two meant you could use it outside the temple.



Yup, I got 'different' answers- planets, churches, the number of days that lamp burned.

I didn't say the lamp was lost. I said the menorah changed/evolved from lamps to candles, as evidence that it was so meaningless, that it could change.



Awesome. So, inform everyone as to what the first "7" lamps represented?



Looks more like a circle than branches...but please do try to offer up another "early version" that is NOT semi-circular. That one's a fail.

So none of the rabbis mentioned Atlantis then? Odd. You'd think if that was the origin it might come up.

 

[SOdhner]

Because NO single source of history is sans errors.

An accurate historical account must be mined from the all available sources.

You just said "all the available sources", but there's literally only one source and it's the one that you are saying is wrong in almost every way.

What other sources do you have for Atlantis existing that nobody on Earth has ever heard of before?

Or when you said "all available sources" were you just referring to the one source? The one that was wrong about the shape, location, size, age...

 

[King of the Americas]

So none of the rabbis mentioned Atlantis then? Odd. You'd think if that was the origin it might come up.

Repeating myself AGAIN:

You don't have to have heard the phrase "Just Do It." to wear Nikes.

 

[King of the Americas]

You just said "all the available sources", but there's literally only one source and it's the one that you are saying is wrong in almost every way.

What other sources do you have for Atlantis existing that nobody on Earth has ever heard of before?

Or when you said "all available sources" were you just referring to the one source? The one that was wrong about the shape, location, size, age...

Plato's writings also have to be mined, as they are included in the "ALL" super-set.