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UK General Election

baron said:
And yet the only 'solution' to terrorism in the Labour manifesto - a subject considered so unimportant it doesn't even have its own section - is to scrap the only effective initiative currently in place - the Prevent programme (it actually says 'review' but we all know what that means). Why cheer a soundbite over the evidence of 30 years, in which Corbyn has come up with not a single domestic initiative to counter the problem of Islamic terrorism.
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Yeah - it means they will review it to ensure it is doing what it is meant to do. Don't you want your tax money spent on policies that actually work?
 
Darat said:
Yeah - it means they will review it to ensure it is doing what it is meant to do. Don't you want your tax money spent on policies that actually work?
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It does work. It may not be perfect but it works. Labour would first render it useless then scrap it, within a single term. I'd bet a lot of money on that.
 
baron said:
It does work. It may not be perfect but it works. Labour would first render it useless then scrap it, within a single term. I'd bet a lot of money on that.
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We shall have to disagree, especially since there will be no way to confirm that....
 
Darat said:
That's really unfair, May voted for the 5 year set term governments so we didn't have this issue. And she wouldn't go back on what she has said now would she?
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From my observations of the woman, you could probably use her to get your freshly washed clothes reasonably dry.
 
3point14 said:
In terms of deaths/year, I wonder where terrorism actually sits on the scale of dangers to the UK public.
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Terrorism has little to do with actual fatalities, as the word suggests. The cost to society from Islamic terrorism, both social and monetary, is enormous, and Labour has not proposed a single domestic policy to address this, not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto.
 
baron said:
Terrorism has little to do with actual fatalities, as the word suggests. The cost to society from Islamic terrorism, both social and monetary, is enormous, and Labour has not proposed a single domestic policy to address this, not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto.
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Can you point me to the specific counter-terrorism section in the Conservative manifesto? I'm asking because I can find a section labeled "Security and counter-terrorism" in the Labour manifesto but can't find the same or similar in the conservative manifesto?
 
I have been watching and listening (on the computer) to Theresa May and very much liked what she said; and how she said it.
 
Darat said:
Can you point me to the specific counter-terrorism section in the Conservative manifesto? I'm asking because I can find a section labeled "Security and counter-terrorism" in the Labour manifesto but can't find the same or similar in the conservative manifesto?
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There's a section entitled 'Strengthening the police and security services' and another entitled, 'Defeating extremism', with the odd initiative hidden in other sections (e.g. 'The safest place to be online'). Not that I've ever said I hold up the Conservative example as the gold standard for tackling extremism and terrorism but at least it doesn't actively encourage them.
 
baron said:
There's a section entitled 'Strengthening the police and security services' and another entitled, 'Defeating extremism', with the odd initiative hidden in other sections (e.g. 'The safest place to be online'). Not that I've ever said I hold up the Conservative example as the gold standard for tackling extremism and terrorism but at least it doesn't actively encourage them.
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Do you then agree that you misspoke when you claimed the Labour manifesto didn't have a specific section on terrorism i.e.

"....not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto...."​

since there is a section entitled "Security and counter-terrorism"?
 
Darat said:
Do you then agree that you misspoke when you claimed the Labour manifesto didn't have a specific section on terrorism i.e.

"....not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto...."​

since there is a section entitled "Security and counter-terrorism"?
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There isn't, it's a subsection (actually a subsection of a subsection). Unlike the Conservative layout they've opted for numerous granular, numbered sections and have chosen to omit terrorism from that list.
 
baron said:
There isn't, it's a subsection (actually a subsection of a subsection). Unlike the Conservative layout they've opted for numerous granular, numbered sections and have chosen to omit terrorism from that list.
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Have to say the answer I expected.
 
baron said:
Glad to see you were not surprised by a factual and to-the-point response.
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Just so folks are clear, baron's claim that ".....not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto...." was demonstrably false.

The actual section quoted from The Labour Manifesto, page 77

Security and counter-terrorism

Labour will maintain the cross-border
security co-operation agreements
with our intelligence partners in
Europe and beyond. We will always
provide our security agencies with
the resources and the powers they
need to protect our country and
keep us all safe. We will also ensure
that such powers do not weaken our
individual rights or civil liberties.
When – as they sometimes will –
these aims collide, the exercise of
investigatory powers must always
be both proportionate and necessary.
􀀺e will reintroduce effective judicial
oversight over how and when they
are used, when the circumstances
demand that our collective security
outweighs an individual freedom.
Labour will review the Prevent
programme with a view to assessing
both its effectiveness and its potential
to alienate minority communities.
In doing so, we will address the
government’s failure to take any
effective new measures against
a growing problem of extreme
or violent radicalisation.
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Darat said:
Just so folks are clear, baron's claim that ".....not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto...." was demonstrably false.

The actual section quoted from The Labour Manifesto, page 77
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This is a great addition to the thread for anybody who chooses not to read my posts. Ah, the wonders of the 'argument at all costs' philosophy.
 
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