Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[King of the Americas]

Thank you all for your participation.

I shall look forward to your alternative theories as they may or may not arise.

 

[Craig4]

My case has been presented, my evidences are varied and plentiful, and I have addressed all of the points raised by the opposition.

Rather than present a case to offer a counter argument, the opposition here have engaged in a "nu-uh" defense. Plato, a renowned teacher and writer, has been brought or made low, google earth images of sunken ruins ignored, so too with biblical references of the cultural appropriation of the "pattern" of the menorah.

Until a better, more consistent, more reliable explanation is brought to bare, the best possible understanding would, for now, be had by connecting the menorah and Plato's Atlantis.

My case is thusly rested.

The images of sunken ruins are ignored because you offer nothing of value to suggest they are your Atlantis. What kind of pottery and from where has been found in the ruins? Any amphora? Coins? Since the area has been inhabited by humans since the Paleolithic it's not like it hasn't been studied before.

 

[Belz...]

Thank you all for your participation.

I shall look forward to your alternative theories as they may or may not arise.

Very funny, but as you should know, it's the burden of the claimant, the prosecutor in your case, to present his case.

Unfortunately for you the accused has been declared not guilty. Plato is innocent of making the claims you ascribed to him.

 

[Craig4]

We aren't offering an alternative theory and you're still wrong.

 

[The Greater Fool]

The alternate theory is what I like to call "reality:" Atlantis was/is a fiction.

The only mention of Atlantis is in a fictional dialogue by Plato to advance his philosophy, again much the same as Orwell, Vonnegut, and Heinlein (often). You have consistently mischaracterized Plato as a historian when he was a philosopher.

There are so many aspects of the story of Atlantis that make it clear it was a fiction: A massive navy and naval wars against Europe and Asia of which there is no record nor evidence. The list goes on.

Since Atlantis is a fiction created after the Menorah was already in use, the Menorah cannot be inspired by the shape of even the fictional city/state of Atlantis. It reminds me of the thread Elton John totally copied REO Speedwagon. Heck, there's even candles.

Play courtroom all you like, it won't change reality.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Sorta...

"Plato was NOT wrong, because we are finding evidence that he was not lying."

*I have posted several google earth images of sunken ruins. They are real, you can look and see them for yourself. They are distinct and clearly not natural formations.

So these ruins are over eleven thousand years old?

 

[Craig4]

Thank you all for your participation.

I shall look forward to your alternative theories as they may or may not arise.

To the inquiring, sophisticated mind, ignorance is far more inspiring and satisfying than a made up answer. You've come up a weak copy of knowledge. I'm fascinated by what we don't know about your site in Spain.

 

[King of the Americas]

The alternate theory is what I like to call "reality:" Atlantis was/is a fiction.

The only mention of Atlantis is in a fictional dialogue by Plato to advance his philosophy, again much the same as Orwell, Vonnegut, and Heinlein (often). You have consistently mischaracterized Plato as a historian when he was a philosopher.

...

In order to fulfill your argument, you are going to need to provide some basic elements.

You say, Plato wrote fiction- You'll need to demonstrate that Plato wrote of other 'purely fictional' cities, as vividly as he did Atlantis. If you could find Plato SAYING the work was fiction, or that he did in fact write fiction, that would really nail your argument.

Secondly, you are going to have to at least attempt to explain away the consistencies in the description Plato used, and the fact that there ARE indeed sunken ruins in the Atlantic.

Lastly, and hear me well, you have not actually supplied an alternative theory to the origin of the menorah...also your timeline is WAY off. Plato wrote of Atlantis around 420 BC. The first menorah was dated around 70 EC or AD if you prefer.

Good luck, and be well.

 

[Vixen]

My case has been presented, my evidences are varied and plentiful, and I have addressed all of the points raised by the opposition.

Rather than present a case to offer a counter argument, the opposition here have engaged in a "nu-uh" defense. Plato, a renowned teacher and writer, has been brought or made low, google earth images of sunken ruins ignored, so too with biblical references of the cultural appropriation of the "pattern" of the menorah.

Until a better, more consistent, more reliable explanation is brought to bare, the best possible understanding would, for now, be had by connecting the menorah and Plato's Atlantis.

My case is thusly rested.

I hope you have better luck in a law court.

 

[Pixel42]

In order to fulfill your argument, you are going to need to provide some basic elements.

In order to fulfill your argument, you are going to need to provide some basic elements.

You say, Plato wrote fiction- You'll need to demonstrate that Plato wrote of other 'purely fictional' cities, as vividly as he did Atlantis. If you could find Plato SAYING the work was fiction, or that he did in fact write fiction, that would really nail your argument.

You say, Plato wrote history. You'll need to demonstrate that Plato wrote of other 'purely historical' ancient cities, as vividly as he did Atlantis. If you could find Plato SAYING the work was history, or that he did in fact write history, that would really nail your argument

Secondly, you are going to have to at least attempt to explain away the consistencies in the description Plato used,

Secondly, you are going to have to at least attempt to describe remarkable consistencies in the description Plato used, and show that those consistences are greater than would be expected by chance.

and the fact that there ARE indeed sunken ruins in the Atlantic.

There would be sunken ruins on the coast of continental Europe, Atlantis or no Atlantis. You need to show that one particular set of ruins corresponds exactly to Plato's description, including size, location and layout.

Lastly, and hear me well, you have not actually supplied an alternative theory to the origin of the menorah...also your timeline is WAY off. Plato wrote of Atlantis around 420 BC. The first menorah was dated around 70 EC or AD if you prefer.

The menorah requires no explanation other than being a practical device for holding candles. You need to supply actual evidence that the layout of this particular destroyed city was used for it, and why.

Good luck, and be well.

Good luck to you, you'll need it.

 

[The Greater Fool]

<Snip>

Secondly, you are going to have to at least attempt to explain away the consistencies in the description Plato used, and the fact that there ARE indeed sunken ruins in the Atlantic.

<Snip>

Oddly, you didn't respond to part of my point, to wit:

There are so many aspects of the story of Atlantis that make it clear it was a fiction: A massive navy and naval wars against Europe and Asia of which there is no record nor evidence. The list goes on.

Where is your historical evidence that such wars occurred. Such evidence should be plentiful.

It's not.

You lose.

 

[King of the Americas]

Oddly, you didn't respond to part of my point, to wit:


Where is your historical evidence that such wars occurred. Such evidence should be plentiful.

It's not.

You lose.

Haha, that's funny.

They didn't believe in militarization of the ocean, as evidence we see no military remains.

I think your game of creating pasts, without any evidences, then claim a lack of evidence as proof of something, is not fun.

 

[Craig4]

Haha, that's funny.

They didn't believe in militarization of the ocean, as evidence we see no military remains.

I think your game of creating pasts, without any evidences, then claim a lack of evidence as proof of something, is not fun.

Oh, you have a an ancient text where "they" wrote thus down do you?

 

[xjx388]

Haha, that's funny.

They didn't believe in militarization of the ocean, as evidence we see no military remains.

So Plato was wrong about that? Are you picking and choosing which parts of Plato's story you think are true? On what basis?

 

[desmirelle]

<snip>
I think your my game of creating pasts, without any evidences, then claim a lack of evidence as proof of something, is not fun.

FIFY

 

[Donn]

Haha, that's funny.

They didn't believe in militarization of the ocean, as evidence we see no military remains.

I think your game of creating pasts, without any evidences, then claim a lack of evidence as proof of something, is not fun.

You just hit 11 on the smugometer. It tops at 10. Well done!

 

[Mojo]

I see we've got to the "declare victory" stage.

 

[Rincewind]

Haha, that's funny.

They didn't believe in militarization of the ocean, as evidence we see no military remains.

I think your game of creating pasts, without any evidences, then claim a lack of evidence as proof of something, is not fun.

Hmmm, pot, meet kettle....

 

[Foolmewunz]

Haha, that's funny.

They didn't believe in militarization of the ocean, as evidence we see no military remains.
I think your game of creating pasts, without any evidences, then claim a lack of evidence as proof of something, is not fun.

Well the pattern continues....

You haven't actually read the dialogue that contains the hearsay description of Atlantis and how it subjugated the whole of the Mediterranean (bar one noble defending holdout) and ENSLAVED the vanquished.

(The actual dialogue isn't that long. Had you bothered to give it five minutes you wouldn't have made such an amateur mistake.)

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Well the pattern continues....

You haven't actually read the dialogue that contains the hearsay description of Atlantis and how it subjugated the whole of the Mediterranean (bar one noble defending holdout) and ENSLAVED the vanquished.

(The actual dialogue isn't that long. Had you bothered to give it five minutes you wouldn't have made such an amateur mistake.)

This is quite helpful in that respect.
Interestingly, Atlantis is, according to Plato, also credited with conquering Egypt, Libya and parts of Italy. We can only hope that, one day, archaeoligists will finally turn their attention to these remote and unexplored lands. Who knows- maybe there were other civilisations as well as Atlantis in those areas which await discovery along with the remains of the Atlantean cities and artefacts? It is also conceivable that these other cultures may have even progressed so far as to have written records of their histories, from which we may glean more knowledge of Atlantis.