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Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

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Have you considered reading the book written by the man closest to the investigation who was not a Manitowoc plant?
No, I have not. However I might consider it if you can convince me that the claims on stevenaverycase.com are false. Specifically, I need solid evidence of the following:-

1. Leslie Eisenberg did not believe that the burn pit was the primary burn site of the body.

2. A fragment of almost every bone in the human body was not found in the burn pit, or if it was then a similar or greater proportion was also found at the dump site.

3. Eisenberg did not find it "highly unlikely" that the bones were not burned in the fire pit.

4. The pelvic bone fragment found at the dump site was linked to Teresa, including evidence that it was left behind when other bones were moved from there to Avery's property.

5. It actually is more likely that "a planter managed to scoop up the tiniest pieces of bones to plant, while forgetting the largest and most obvious."

6. When officers returned to the garage to perform a thorough search and found two bullet fragments, one was not a 'small, partially destroyed fragment in a crack in the cement', and the other was not 'under an air compressor in the back of the garage' - they were actually both planted.

7. The bullet was not matched to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty to have been fired from Avery's exact rifle, or if it was then the State Crime Lab or Calumet County did participate in the frame-job by providing Manitowoc County officers with a bullet and DNA to plant.

8. If Teresa was shot in the back of the head while kneeling or laying on the ground, blood would not have been confined to the area below her head, but in fact would have splattered all over the garage.

9. When blood is transferred into a vial, a needle is not inserted through the rubber cap, so there is no legitimate explanation for a hole being there.

10. The evidence tape on the vial box was not cut in a meeting with Avery's own lawyers.

11. The results of the EDTA test do not make it extremely improbable that Avery's preserved blood was planted in six places in the car.

12. Lenk actually did have the access code to the room where the blood vial was stored, and there are indications that he knew the blood vial existed and he did personally go to the Clerk of Courts office to collect evidence for transfer.

13. In the call between Colborn and the dispatcher, one or both of them did sound 'excited, nervous, or confused' - suggesting that Colborn was looking right at the missing vehicle (and thinking of how it could be used to frame Avery).

14. The car was found on the Avery lot with plates, or even if it wasn't they were not 'folded and stashed in another car on the lot' (because that would indicate a serious effort to hide the identity of the vehicle).

15. Avery actually had plenty of time to crush the car without arousing suspicion.

16. It is not 'highly unlikely' that the police found the car almost immediately after Teresa was reported missing, took an unnoticeable amount of blood from Avery's vial and planted it in six spots in the car, removed the plates, drove it onto the Avery lot without detection, covered it with a car hood and tree branches, and ran across the yard near the residences to hide the plates in another vehicle. In fact this is the most likely scenario (and here's why...).
 
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I did note that 5 tyres were identified by the steel, which suggests the primary burn would need to be achieved with this much fuel.

As our friend Mike Halbach would say,

No, I don't think so.

I am not sure about the locked up vial and I have read that website when Kaosium posted it.
It is scientifically impossible to eliminate the flesh without trace in Avery's burn pit, and even with fuel it would take days.

In practice, it's usually an issue for people who try it, unless they know something about the subject. They tend to underestimate the fuel requirements.

Most killers, I would say well over 99 percent, do something else when faced with the need to dispose of a body. They bury it, or they dump it in a remote area. Burning does not confer any particular advantage.

If the goal is to reduce human remains to a dry fraction that can be used to frame someone, burning confers two huge advantages. First, the remains can be transported in a small container without being recognized as what they are. Second, the cause and circumstances of the death are obliterated. Burned remains establish the fact of murder. Everything else must be inferred, as indeed it was.

Charlie Wilkes from IA
 
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No, I have not. However I might consider it if you can convince me that the claims on stevenaverycase.com are false. Specifically, I need solid evidence of the following:-

1. Leslie Eisenberg did not believe that the burn pit was the primary burn site of the body.

2. A fragment of almost every bone in the human body was not found in the burn pit, or if it was then a similar or greater proportion was also found at the dump site.

3. Eisenberg did not find it "highly unlikely" that the bones were not burned in the fire pit.

4. The pelvic bone fragment found at the dump site was linked to Teresa, including evidence that it was left behind when other bones were moved from there to Avery's property.

5. It actually is more likely that "a planter managed to scoop up the tiniest pieces of bones to plant, while forgetting the largest and most obvious."

6. When officers returned to the garage to perform a thorough search and found two bullet fragments, one was not a 'small, partially destroyed fragment in a crack in the cement', and the other was not 'under an air compressor in the back of the garage' - they were actually both planted.

7. The bullet was not matched to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty to have been fired from Avery's exact rifle, or if it was then the State Crime Lab or Calumet County did participate in the frame-job by providing Manitowoc County officers with a bullet and DNA to plant.

8. If Teresa was shot in the back of the head while kneeling or laying on the ground, blood would not have been confined to the area below her head, but in fact would have splattered all over the garage.

9. When blood is transferred into a vial, a needle is not inserted through the rubber cap, so there is no legitimate explanation for a hole being there.

10. The evidence tape on the vial box was not cut in a meeting with Avery's own lawyers.

11. The results of the EDTA test do not make it extremely improbable that Avery's preserved blood was planted in six places in the car.

12. Lenk actually did have the access code to the room where the blood vial was stored, and there are indications that he knew the blood vial existed and he did personally go to the Clerk of Courts office to collect evidence for transfer.

13. In the call between Colborn and the dispatcher, one or both of them did sound 'excited, nervous, or confused' - suggesting that Colborn was looking right at the missing vehicle (and thinking of how it could be used to frame Avery).

14. The car was found on the Avery lot with plates, or even if it wasn't they were not 'folded and stashed in another car on the lot' (because that would indicate a serious effort to hide the identity of the vehicle).

15. Avery actually had plenty of time to crush the car without arousing suspicion.

16. It is not 'highly unlikely' that the police found the car almost immediately after Teresa was reported missing, took an unnoticeable amount of blood from Avery's vial and planted it in six spots in the car, removed the plates, drove it onto the Avery lot without detection, covered it with a car hood and tree branches, and ran across the yard near the residences to hide the plates in another vehicle. In fact this is the most likely scenario (and here's why...).



Boom chakalaka.

And there you have it. It looks like Samson has some work to do (and this does not include quoting other anonymous posters from the internet).
 
No, I have not. However I might consider it if you can convince me that the claims on stevenaverycase.com are false. Specifically, I need solid evidence of the following:-

I agree with most of the points, I'll just comment on the ones who are explainable.

8. If Teresa was shot in the back of the head while kneeling or laying on the ground, blood would not have been confined to the area below her head, but in fact would have splattered all over the garage.

This one depends a lot on the weapon and the angle of the shot. However if her head was wrapped up in paper and/or cloth it is entirely possible to do without any splatter.

9. When blood is transferred into a vial, a needle is not inserted through the rubber cap, so there is no legitimate explanation for a hole being there.

That's how vacutainers work, but you can use a second needle to remove some blood afterwards without creating a visible second hole. That's what a hematological analyzer would do.

15. Avery actually had plenty of time to crush the car without arousing suspicion.

I think this one should be easy, he had three or four days before he became the focus of the investigation and it's hard that he wouldn't have the time to crush the car. Whether he would have the wits to do it is another matter entirely.

McHrozni
 
I am not sure where you are all going with this.

Let us remember there is strong and sober witness evidence saying the Rav4 was driven from the lot and turned left at 3 or 4 pm.

Is this evidence wrong?
If it is correct, was Teresa driving the car?
Was Steven Avery driving the car?
Was someone else driving the car?
Was Elon Musk driving the car?
 
I am not sure where you are all going with this.

The case for the defense isn't nearly as strong as you make it out to be, for starters.

Let us remember there is strong and sober witness evidence saying the Rav4 was driven from the lot and turned left at 3 or 4 pm.

Is this evidence wrong?
If it is correct, was Teresa driving the car?
Was Steven Avery driving the car?
Was someone else driving the car?

All are possible and don't disprove the evidence presented. If it was Theresa it makes the murder less likely, that's it. There is no evidence whatsoever it was Theresa driving the car though.

McHrozni
 
The case for the defense isn't nearly as strong as you make it out to be, for starters.



All are possible and don't disprove the evidence presented. If it was Theresa it makes the murder less likely, that's it. There is no evidence whatsoever it was Theresa driving the car though.

McHrozni
It may be helpful to explain Steve's movements before and after driving the car.
I am certain he didn't so am not required to speculate, but those who believe Teresa did not drive the car from the lot are obliged to create a narrative.
 
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I think that at this time it is pointless to be still arguing about the current evidence. The future of this case rests on new evidence and we should know about that shortly (I said a couple days ago that I suspect by the end of June, although I now wouldn't be surprised if it is within the next two weeks). Zellner was working on a few other cases over the previous couple weeks (winning the reinstatement of a nine million dollar wrongful conviction settlement) and now appears to have her test results for this case (the State has also indicated that the tests have been done and they expect her to file shortly - the State has also received the results of the tests). Based on her twitter avatar changes over the past couple days she appears pretty confident (she first changed to a tsunami picture and then to picture of a scanning electron microscope from the place that was doing those tests). Rumour has it that after she brought those results to Avery he was pretty ecstatic, and asked (or agreed for) her to do one more thing before filing.

Assuming that her case is focused around the SEM tests then it appears that she will be arguing that either the Rav4 key DNA and/or the DNA from the hood latch swab were planted. But, there may be much more coming. I have long said that I had been 50/50, but Zellner agreeing to take the case shifted me towards the not guilty side. We will see shortly if she has the goods. Based on her confidence I suspect that she does.

I will be most interested in seeing the reactions (denials?) from the side that appears to be on the losing end (assuming that the new evidence is either strong, or poor) - whether that is Avery supporters if Zellner's new findings are basically a puff of smoke (that will include myself as I fully expect Zellner to bring strong evidence), or of those who think Avery is guilty if Zellner's finding show planting of evidence.
 
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I think that at this time it is pointless to be still arguing about the current evidence. The future of this case rests on new evidence and we should know about that shortly (I said a couple days ago that I suspect by the end of June, although I now wouldn't be surprised if it is within the next two weeks). Zellner was working on a few other cases over the previous couple weeks (winning the reinstatement of a nine million dollar wrongful conviction settlement) and now appears to have her test results for this case (the State has also indicated that the tests have been done and they expect her to file shortly - the State has also received the results of the tests). Based on her twitter avatar changes over the past couple days she appears pretty confident (she first changed to a tsunami picture and then to picture of a scanning electron microscope from the place that was doing those tests). Rumour has it that after she brought those results to Avery he was pretty ecstatic, and asked (or agreed for) her to do one more thing before filing.

Assuming that her case is focused around the SEM tests then it appears that she will be arguing that either the Rav4 key DNA and/or the DNA from the hood latch swab were planted. But, there may be much more coming. I have long said that I had been 50/50, but Zellner agreeing to take the case shifted me towards the not guilty side. We will see shortly if she has the goods. Based on her confidence I suspect that she does.

I will be most interested in seeing the reactions (denia case.ls?) from the side that appears to be on the losing end (assuming that the new evidence is either strong, or poor) - whether that is Avery supporters if Zellner's new findings are basically a puff of smoke (that will include myself as I fully expect Zellner to bring strong evidence), or of those who think Avery is guilty if Zellner's finding show planting of evidence.
After studying multiple similar cases, I can say clearly that the arguments about guilt or innocence become irrelevant if one data point precludes the guilt narrative, and the evidence trawled into the net by the prosecution is shown to be brick by brick explicable by a narrative excluding suspect.

This is such a case.

Of course there are many data points precluding suspect. (inmate as kindly termed in some discussions).
 
It may be helpful to explain Steve's movements before and after driving the car.
I am certain he didn't so am not required to speculate, but those who believe Teresa did not drive the car from the lot are obliged to create a narrative.

The prosecution alleged an accomplice and successfully prosecuted him, remember? He drove the car and the phone to create an appearance Theresa Haslbach left the property while Steve was busy building an alibi with his girlfriend.

This scenario also explains why there is Stevens' blood in the car, but no fingerprints. He didn't do much in the car, but his accomplice either worse gloves or else his touch was so light it didn't leave recoverable fingerprints, or else wiped them off in some way - perhaps accidentally.

The case is not very hard for prosecution to create narratives that support each other.

McHrozni
 
The state would have more credibility saying that Avery attached the cell phone to a pigeon, or let the dog drive the Rav than Dassey.
 
Incidentally, on Monday the State, ordered by the state DOJ, sent the bullet fragment to an Illinois lab for retesting - tested and returned the next day, so this was on a pretty frantic timeline. I can't imagine that they would be doing that if Zellner's tests had found nothing significant (and by that I mean Zellner's tests on other evidence, as while she had requested to test the bullet fragment to determine the organ from which Teresa's cells on the fragment came from, as well as NAA analysis comparing the fragment to the unspent shells in Avery's bedroom, that had been denied). So between that and Zellner's avatar teasing on twitter, I think that something major is coming. But I have been wrong before.
 
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the more i think of the bullet and Lenk being around too often and how no one else found it earlier and the other shell cases that had nothing and all the other samples that had nothing against Avery and nothing in the trailer so Krafty Kratz moves it all to the garage but then truth is nothing was really found out there but this one "desperate" piece of evidence LENKING TH DNA to the garage fictional scenario.

common sense tells me the bullet would have a lot of blood on it from TH and Ive never heard that comment made by SC.

it just doesnt add up and if the evidence were real then Wisconsin needs to fire a bunch of police and detectives and just have Colburn and Lenk as the SuperHeroDetectives that only have to wonder around a crime scene and evidence everyone else missed is suddenly found!!!
 
flying through the RUMORS posts on the new release, Im going with RUMOR here

someone already twitted (just rumor) that test came back that this bullet is made from different metal (whatever it calls) not as the rest of the bullets collected from SA garage....

someone else mentioned its an easy test and they could prove it quickly.

personally I dont know.
 
flying through the RUMORS posts on the new release, Im going with RUMOR here

someone already twitted (just rumor) that test came back that this bullet is made from different metal (whatever it calls) not as the rest of the bullets collected from SA garage....

someone else mentioned its an easy test and they could prove it quickly.

personally I dont know.

Pretty shocking. I don't know what to make of it, considering the rumors I've been hearing about the case. Steven Avery wrote a complete confession and sent it to the Washington Post.

JUST A RUMOR FOR NOW....
 
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