Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[Belz...]

There are some who postulate that the Menorah was misconstrued as a candle stick, rather than a symbol of the lost city, with half its concentric circles missing.

I've always found Atlantis to be the unfound Troy- a mythical city lost to our knowledge, trapped behind indecipherable passages, waiting to be found by someone willing to look where others have not...

Thoughts?

Atlantis was a literary fabrication by Plato in order to make a political point in his writings. There is literally no evidence that it existed beyond this.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Maybe watch the Cameron film...?

Well, if you're not going to support your own arguments...

I just watched the film, and the menorah comparison is ludicrous.
Look at the attachment.

For one, it's upside down.
Secondly, there are clearly five concentric arches, not three.
Thirdly, there is no 'stand', the vertical line ends at the outer circle.

This looks nothing like a menorah, and nothing like Atlantis.

ETA: added traced image for clarity

 

[Belz...]

*Objection* Speculation.

<chuckle> Speculation? We have nothing on Atlantis except from Plato and he never claimed it to be a real thing. It was mentioned in the context of a fictional discussion.

First, these are not 'my' claims...

Yes they are. You repeat a claim from someone else here, it becomes your claim.

I always employ non-sense when I'm trying NOT to make a logical argument.

Seems like you missed Myriad's point, which was about cherry-picking data to fit a preconceived conclusion.

There used to be a roll eyes icon...where did it go?

You seem to only want 'thoughts' that don't disagree with you.

 

[Belz...]

You too, seem to be stuck in micro mode... Look upon this history not from a single era, but in a macro view of history.

What does that even mean?

The story of Moses and the Exodus were hundreds upon hundreds of years 'after' the appropriation and de-evolution of the symbol.

*Objection* Speculation.

 

[King of the Americas]

Well, if you're not going to support your own arguments...

I just watched the film, and the menorah comparison is ludicrous.
Look at the attachment.
View attachment 36761
For one, it's upside down.
Secondly, there are clearly five concentric arches, not three.
Thirdly, there is no 'stand', the vertical line ends at the outer circle.

This looks nothing like a menorah, and nothing like Atlantis.

ETA: added traced image for clarity

I think it looks like Atlantis and nothing like a menorah...

 

[Belz...]

So, now you want to toss out Plato, as a qualified Historian...someone who never checked sources and just jotted any old diddy down?

Plato was a philosopher, and he was making a very biased political claim in these works. He was trying to draw a conclusion, and used a story to make his point. Without any other evidence to point to the existence of Atlantis, something that's physically impossible as described, by the way, we must discount it as historical.

^Disingenuous^

No that pretty much describes your claim.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

I think it looks like Atlantis and nothing like a menorah...

Earlier you were objecting to my comparison with Stone Age ring and cup marks, because only a percentage of them had three concentric circles.

Now you claim that five concentric arches is just peachy as a symbol for something that supposedly consisted of three complete circles.

And the ancient secret menorah link you've been harping on for this entire thread is suddenly gone?

Yeah, I think I have the answer to my earlier question about your sincerity.

 

[King of the Americas]

Atlantis was a literary fabrication by Plato in order to make a political point in his writings. There is literally no evidence that it existed beyond this.

If you begin with that supposition, you will never find anything.

If Troy had remained myth, it too would still lay buried to time.

"Literally" here meaning NOT literal, because Plato 'wrote' and used literary terms to describe it from a previous source. Did you mean we have no physical proof, because that is in the film too?

 

[King of the Americas]

Earlier you were objecting to my comparison with Stone Age ring and cup marks, because only a percentage of them had three concentric circles.

Now you claim that five concentric arches is just peachy as a symbol for something that supposedly consisted of three complete circles.

And the ancient secret menorah link you've been harping on for this entire thread is suddenly gone?

Yeah, I think I have the answer to my earlier question about your sincerity.

Like you said,, it's upside down...candles and lamps DON'T work like that. My analysis was based on that alone.

 

[Belz...]

If you begin with that supposition, you will never find anything.

Nonsense. We don't assume that things for which we have zero evidence existed. You need to find evidence of something before anyone will take the claim seriously. What you've presented here is not evidence for your claim.

In fact, even if you're right about the shape of the Jewish symbol, have you considered that it could've been based on Plato's account instead? How could you tell?

If Troy had remained myth, it too would still lay buried to time.

That's already been addressed by other posters; don't pretend like that didn't happen.

"Literally" here meaning NOT literal, because Plato 'wrote' and used literary terms to describe it from a previous source.

*Objection* speculation!

You don't know this. Plato doesn't make that claim.

 

[King of the Americas]

... we must discount it as historical.


....

That utter bull butter.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 12

 

[carlitos]

Petroglifos of a candle lobra. Sounds legit.

 

[Belz...]

That utter bull butter.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to remove breach of rule 12 in quote

Neither one of us is an historian, King. Don't play game with me.

I see you're not really addressing the content of my post but rather the easy-to-pick comments. Would you like to change your strategy, now?

Are you saying that absent evidence, we should accept the claim? That is a bold new philosophy for science, I have to say.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

No, you claimed there were engravings of a menorah in sunken ruins off the Spanish coast that proved a link between Atlantis and Israel.

NOW, let's answer the question above...where did this (menorah, red.) "pattern" come from...? Where do we find it...on the coast...of spain...underwater...from a period thousands upon thousands of years ago...

However:
The ruins are not submerged.
The carving does not look like a menorah.
The carving does not look like Atlantis.

You were lying.

 

[King of the Americas]

Nonsense. We don't assume that things for which we have zero evidence existed. You need to find evidence of something before anyone will take the claim seriously. What you've presented here is not evidence for your claim.

In fact, even if you're right about the shape of the Jewish symbol, have you considered that it could've been based on Plato's account instead? How could you tell?



That's already been addressed by other posters; don't pretend like that didn't happen.



*Objection* speculation!

You don't know this. Plato doesn't make that claim.

lol

Overruled

Plato's literary work IS evidence and this court will hear it. Be seated counselor. The witness's document is historic, and it should be analyzed for a factual basis. Regarding it as pure fiction provides no motivation to these proceedings, and is an affront to evidentiary rules.

 

[Myriad]

A more useful question might be, what reliable sources of information about what did and did not exist thousands of years earlier did Plato have?

So, now you want to toss out Plato, as a qualified Historian...someone who never checked sources and just jotted any old diddy down?

On the contrary. I asked a question, which apparently you cannot answer.

I expected a list of the reliable sources of historical knowledge that Plato had access to. His habits and character might be relevant regarding how accurately he might have conveyed the information he received from those sources, but it all depends upon the sources first.

 

[carlitos]

This looks nothing like a menorah, and nothing like Atlantis.

It's Jesus' abs. The abs of Turin.

 

[King of the Americas]

Neither one of us is an historian, King. Don't play game with me.

I see you're not really addressing the content of my post but rather the easy-to-pick comments. Would you like to change your strategy, now?

Are you saying that absent evidence, we should accept the claim? That is a bold new philosophy for science, I have to say.

You're not a historian, and you are saying what evidence "must" be disregarded???

Objection- Beyond the Scope of the Witness.

---

I'm saying you aren't qualified to disqualify Plato.

 

[Belz...]

lol

Overruled

You know how another poster pointed out your hypocrisy when applying standards? This is another example.

Plato's literary work IS evidence and this court will hear it.

I told you not to play games. We're not in a court, and a claim cannot be its own evidence.

The witness's document is historic, and it should be analyzed for a factual basis.

Should I consider Star Wars evidence for Darth Vader?

Regarding it as pure fiction provides no motivation to these proceedings, and is an affront to evidentiary rules.

That is pure BS. You just want the story to be true, and you'll use any argument, no matter how silly, to make it so.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

It's Jesus' abs. The abs of Turin.

It's clearly the rainbow with some kind of really tall tower in front of it. Which proves the Tower of Babel was a space elevator. God was an alien!