Who is telling the truth?

Who do you believe, Trump or Comey?

  • Trump, because he is a President of great integrity who would never lie.

    Votes: 4 4.3%

  • Comey, the recently fired disgruntled employee.

    Votes: 90 95.7%
  • Total voters
    94
"James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!" Looks like Trump tried to bully Comey because he knows what Comey is going to say. Unfortunately, he did so in the stupidest way possible: If he can't produce tapes refuting what's in the Comey memos, they will be accepted as factual.
 
Brainster said:
Has anybody seen these memos? Has Comey himself commented on whether they exist?

Oh, sorry, I thought this was a place for skepticism.
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I know, right?

And when Comey shows up for his hearing, and the congress is all like, "'sup?" He'll be like, "My dog ate the memos."
 
acbytesla said:
What criteria do we use to decide who is telling the truth? Do previous statements that the President has made that have turned out to be false effect our trust?
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Yes. Of course.

If it was just the occasional lie, or even the normal proportion we've grown to expect from Republican politicians it might not have a significant effect, but we are talking about someone who has been shown to lie regularly and compulsively for no good reason, let alone when it is to his advantage.

His lying is so habitual that his supporters even use it as an argument when they are defending what he says. "Oh, you can't believe everything he says. That's just the way he is."

Does it make a difference that Comey moments after the alleged incident wrote a mem-con (memo of conversation) detailing the conversation and sent it to his staff and others make his claim more believable?
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Yes. 'Work product' notes are routinely admitted as evidence in criminal cases, and given a substantial amount of weight.
 
Upchurch said:
That gives me some comfort that, out there somewhere, there is an Earth-like planet where the populace finally got rid of their idiocricy and elected, instead, a reasonable, experienced, and sincere President.
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We had such a president for the last two terms, and all that it managed to do was enrage the bigots and idiots and bring them crawling out from under their dung heaps.

Of course, it didn't help matters that he was reasonable, experienced, sincere, AND black. That last seems to have been more than a counterbalance sufficient to negate to any other positives.
 
My vote isn't a choice: All politicians (in my opinion) are liars, cheats and frauds on the national level - the individual accountability is so diluted by the time they're on that level that they feel bullet-proof (think Hilary and her private server); and most of the time they do get away with it.

Comey, given the level of this issue, is going to memo or journal the event in such a way as to put himself in the best light (and given the media hostility to Trump, it's working).

So, my vote is: Both men are liars and are telling the incident they want it to have gone down and the truth is somewhere in between (and probably shredded by now).

Whoever put up this poll did not think out all reasonable explanations.
 
quadraginta said:
Yes. Of course.

If it was just the occasional lie, or even the normal proportion we've grown to expect from Republican politicians it might not have a significant effect, but we are talking about someone who has been shown to lie regularly and compulsively for no good reason, let alone when it is to his advantage.

His lying is so habitual that his supporters even use it as an argument when they are defending what he says. "Oh, you can't believe everything he says. That's just the way he is."
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Which IMV is IS INSANE!!!

That argument amounts to 'You have to understand the President. He's always lying, unless when he isn't.' This makes George Orwell's 'doublespeak' seem mild and reasonable.


quadraginta said:
Yes. 'Work product' notes are routinely admitted as evidence in criminal cases, and given a substantial amount of weight.
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Unless Comey contradicts what has been reported, I'm convinced the President is guilty of obstruction.

Not that he will be convicted. After all, he's not a Democrat who put his dick in an intern's mouth.
 
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WilliamSeger said:
"James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!" Looks like Trump tried to bully Comey because he knows what Comey is going to say. Unfortunately, he did so in the stupidest way possible: If he can't produce tapes refuting what's in the Comey memos, they will be accepted as factual.
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Here's a scenario for the board to chew on:

I just kind of had the thought that Comey might have lied to Trump in the meeting - and that would be okay.

Law Enforcement people can lie to suspects in the course of an investigation.

Pres: Am I under investigation?

FBI: No (A lie, in hopes the Pres/suspect now says something incriminating)

Trump might not be understanding that yet. He thinks that if he gave Comey an order and Comey agreed to obey, then later didn't, then he (Trump) has something on Comey. He thinks if he (Trump) asked a question and Comey's answer was later proven untruthful, then Trump has something on Comey.

LE investigations don't work that way.

If Comey felt that Trump gave him illegal orders, and felt that Trump was a suspect in an investigation, then Comey could lie. He could say that he would agree to do what Trump said, hoping that Trump would say even more incriminating things.

Trump may have thought he was a boss giving orders.

Comey may have thought this was the oddest undercover investigation of his career, in which Comey pretended to be an unethical version of himself.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I think Trump's lying and Comey's telling the truth, but I don't consider these memos as the rocksolid evidence others seem to be. Ckney wrote them, so why are they more reliable as evidence than hearsay? It's still his claim versus Trump's claim of what happened. That Comey committed his version to paper makes it better? One can only tell the truth in writing? If Trump had scrawled a memo, clutching a crayon in his pudgy little paw, of his version of events would his memo be evidence also?
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We didn’t hear about the meeting until after Comey was fired. When we question whether Comey is telling the truth, we have to consider the possibility that he made up the story as revenge for being fired. The memo eliminates that possibility. The memo proves that Comey was making the claim at the time the meeting took place. At that time, Comey didn’t have a motivation to lie. Unless Comey was working some bizarre long con to frame the President, the memo is strong evidence that Comey is telling the truth.
 
acbytesla said:
This is vintage Comey. Care to bet? I'll bet you 10K, there are memos. And they materially say what has been reported.
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I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say there weren't memos nor that the reported contents are way off base. I just haven't seen anything that suggests Comey is behind the release of the memos.

He might be. He might have released details himself or given permission for others to do so. But at present I have no reason to believe one way or the other.
 
phiwum said:
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say there weren't memos nor that the reported contents are way off base. I just haven't seen anything that suggests Comey is behind the release of the memos.

He might be. He might have released details himself or given permission for others to do so. But at present I have no reason to believe one way or the other.
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I don't know for a fact that he is. But I do believe he is. It's classic Washington. People like Comey have lots of friends and allies in different circles. You don't get to be the FBI Director without being a political animal so I bet he has favors he can count on. It's not the kind of thing he would want to directly leak to the press but it is the kind of thing he would want to get leaked.
 
Darat said:
Not sure what point you are trying to make?
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I've been catching up on conservative radio talk shows. The current meme is that because we, the public, haven't seen the evidence (or memos), there aren't any and this is all made up and that the story is falling apart rather than gaining momentum.

I don't know whether that was Brainster's point, but it seems to fit that pattern.
 
Yea right, I don't believe Trump is lying. Next you'll say he lost the popular vote too or that he didn't win the EC in a landslide, or that he did not have the largest inauguration crowd in history.
 
Upchurch said:
I've been catching up on conservative radio talk shows. The current meme is that because we, the public, haven't seen the evidence (or memos), there aren't any and this is all made up and that the story is falling apart rather than gaining momentum.

I don't know whether that was Brainster's point, but it seems to fit that pattern.
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Oh, I'm sure Comey is lying. Why else would he want to discuss this in a public hearing to Congress instead of behind closed doors? He's hiding something and he doesn't want it to get out in a private, closed door trial.
 
Arcade22 said:
Why would seeing the memos be enough? I thought you were arguing for skepticism here.

As a True Skeptic™ I need multiple independent pieces of evidence, preferably video and audio recordings from multiple angles with time-stamps clearly documenting that Comey actually wrote said memos as alleged. Anything short of that would simply be insufficient to convince a True Skeptic™ such as myself to come to a reasonable conclusion. As such I must simply accept that i don't know whether or not Comey wrote any notes at all and it's just as likely that Trump is speaking the Truth as Comey is.
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Hello Bob
 
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