Why can't Corbyn connect with public?

[Aber]

And while you may point out that Paisley was celebrated after giving up terrorism,

Did you really mean this?

 

[Aber]

The idea that Corbyn is frighteningly far left is a nonsense that stems from the incredibly narrow spectrum of allowable politically correct opinion in the uk these days. You cannot be in favour of anything remotely socially progressive without being a commie.

Depends on your definitions.

Compared with 30 years ago, the "right" has won the arguments on economic policy, the "left" on social and cultural issues, and the centre ground has moved accordingly.

As far as I can tell Corbyn's views haven't changed substantially in 30 years, and so certainly his economic views are far left.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Corbyn is a product of Blair's creation. When Labour is led by a Red Tory and taints any idea of centrism with not just Iraq, but also cronyism and corruption, you are going to get a backlash. Unfortunately Labour got an inept dinosaur who couldn't debate a straw man. He's the man who has guaranteed a generation of Tory government, and should just retire when he loses.

 

[MikeG]

Corbyn is a product of Blair's creation. When Labour is led by a Red Tory and taints any idea of centrism with not just Iraq, but also cronyism and corruption, you are going to get a backlash..........

The first two, granted (I'd add spin, and university tuition fees). But corruption? What are you meaning by this?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

The first two, granted (I'd add spin, and university tuition fees). But corruption? What are you meaning by this?

Cash for Peerages and dodgy dealings with Saudi Arabia (not to mention his "peace envoy" gig)

The Lib Dems were just the final nail in the coffin for Centrism (Also due to Tuition Fees)

 

[MikeG]

Cash for Peerages and dodgy dealings with Saudi Arabia (not to mention his "peace envoy" gig)

Cash for Peerages, granted. But then, giving a gong to party donors was not started or finished by Labour under Blair.

Saudi? What dodgy dealings? I mean, actual corruption: illegitimate personal enrichment.

The Lib Dems were just the final nail in the coffin for Centrism (Also due to Tuition Fees)

Sorry, but I don't agree at all. Centrism may have been vacated by Labour, but the centre ground of politics doesn't go away, so it is now, or soon will be, simply occupied by the Conservatives.

 

[jimbob]

newsthump on Corbyn

http://newsthump.com/2017/05/09/tit...d-stance-by-continuing-course-toward-iceberg/

And one that is almost accurate

http://newsthump.com/2017/01/25/jer...-article-50-because-it-sounds-like-hard-work/

 

[Tolls]

But from what I can see the quotes Mike has based his argument on the premise that winning elections makes you right. That's nonsense.

No he's not.

The Don postulated that the "plan" was to show that 70s policies would (essentially) come back in vogue, and would be a winning strategy.

For that to be true, Mike wondered how long you would have to wait, should there not be an election victory (ie it wasn't a winning strategy), before it was show to be false?

 

[Aber]

Cash for Peerages, granted. But then, giving a gong to party donors was not started or finished by Labour under Blair.

Saudi? What dodgy dealings? I mean, actual corruption: illegitimate personal enrichment.

Bernie Ecclestone and F1 advertising?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

No he's not.

The Don postulated that the "plan" was to show that 70s policies would (essentially) come back in vogue, and would be a winning strategy.

For that to be true, Mike wondered how long you would have to wait, should there not be an election victory (ie it wasn't a winning strategy), before it was show to be false?

So what was the proven right bit in reference to?

Your interpretation is fairly trivial. There is no amount of time that would prove that anything possible will not happen at some subsequent time.

So the only pertinent question seems to be how long do you hold onto your principles before giving them up in the hope of being popular.

Interestingly labours wishy washy lack of ideology has gutted them in Scotland. Had they remained a proper left of centre party they may well have kept their credibility. Now they've lost that ground to the snp and probably won't get it back.

 

[imodium]

Chomsky in the grauniad on the corb.
Good summation.

 

[MikeG]

"Good summation". Really? "Labour party's future lies with Corb". "It's all the media's fault".

No, the man is slow witted, rather dim, and stuck in a 1970s mind-set. He is trying to win from a position which has NEVER, but never, won UK elections, and he is going to get absolutely pulverised in 4 weeks time. Chomsky is a fool to hang his hat on that.

 

[Aber]

And the Labour draft manifesto has been leaked. Those who were looking for real socialism will be pleased.

 

[MikeG]

If you can't run a manifesto launch, how can you expect to run a country?

 

[lionking]

Chomsky is a fool to hang his hat on that.

FTFY

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

FTFY

In keeping with the thread I suppose which is one giant ad hom purporting to be reasoned debate.

I guess Chomsky made the mistake of looking at the issues and policies instead of just throwing out insults. Idiot.

Not everyone can be the intellectual heavyweight that is Theresa May I guess. Her husband takes the bins out you know. That's a boy job.

 

[MikeG]

FTFY

Well indeed, if his summary of where he thinks British elections can be won from is anything to go by. I say again, no British elections are ever won from the extremes, either right or left. You have to take the vast bulk of the middle ground of the electorate with you if you want to win, and that vast bulk doesn't live anywhere near the left wing or the right wing of politics. Corbyn, and anyone who advocates for Corbyn's brand of politics, can never win a UK election, and anyone who thinks otherwise is indeed a fool.

 

[MikeG]

Here's a bit of an eye-opener, from the Gradiun:

Labour’s election manifesto is being drawn up by Andrew Fisher, a close aide of Corbyn, who joined his team shortly after his first leadership victory in 2015. A former political officer for the Public and Commercial Services union and ex-columnist for the Morning Star.

Fisher has previously been suspended from the party, after a tweet during the 2015 election where he urged voters in Croydon not to back Labour candidate Emily Benn and instead vote for Jon Bigger, standing for Class War. The seat was won by the Conservatives.....

A columnist from the Morning Star writes the draft Labour party manifesto. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[lionking]

In keeping with the thread I suppose which is one giant ad hom purporting to be reasoned debate.

I guess Chomsky made the mistake of looking at the issues and policies instead of just throwing out insults. Idiot.

Not everyone can be the intellectual heavyweight that is Theresa May I guess. Her husband takes the bins out you know. That's a boy job.

Oh that's too funny by far. You insult May and Tories in general, yet my characterisation of Chomsky is an ad hom.

By the way, it is my sincere belief. I have followed his rants for a long time and have formed this opinion long before he put his "weight" behind Corbyn.

 

[Noztradamus]

Here's a bit of an eye-opener, from the Gradiun:



A columnist from the Morning Star writes the draft Labour party manifesto. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

If you read it in the Daily Mail you wouldn't believe it