Merged Trump Fires Comey....

[BobTheCoward]

I know. What is with people still spouting the nonsense there is no evidence.

There is growing evidence of wrongdoing here. Just because the investigation has not concluded does not mean there is no evidence.

Evidence you are unwilling to share is the same as no evidence for skepticism.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have issues with three of those but I just want to focus on one?

Where does it say you can't have a fair election because a private entity presents doctored documents?

Private entity?

Do you not know the difference between a government, Russia, and a private entity?

And for the record, we do have laws against foreign influence in our elections.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Trump helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan in a horrible location, with the help of a corrupt Transportation Minister who has a track record of building very wasteful projects and has ties with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

And that's just the beginning.

Which isn't evidence of election wrongdoing.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The FBI is free to do what it wants. We simply should not accept their opinions without them presenting evidence.

So they fired Flynn without evidence?

 

[Hercules56]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/

Washington (CNN)Federal prosecutors have issued grand jury subpoenas to associates of former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn seeking business records, as part of the ongoing probe of Russian meddling in last year's election, according to people familiar with the matter. CNN learned of the subpoenas hours before President Donald Trump fired FBI director James Comey.

The subpoenas represent the first sign of a significant escalation of activity in the FBI's broader investigation begun last July into possible ties between Trump campaign associates and Russia.




Huh, Trump fired Comey right after Comey steps up the Russiagate investigation?

Smells like a cover up

 

[BobTheCoward]

So they fired Flynn without evidence?

They made a claim. I don't accept it.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Private entity?

Do you not know the difference between a government, Russia, and a private entity?

And for the record, we do have laws against foreign influence in our elections.

WikiLeaks is certainly private.

And those laws shouldn't exist by the way, but that is a different conversation

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

As skeptics we don't accept claims where the evidence is presented in secret. We require evidence in the open to base conclusions.

There is a preponderance of evidence something's wrong here. Feel free to go off into Lala Land blissfully reassured you personally are carrying the torch for skepticism.

 

[Hercules56]

Which isn't evidence of election wrongdoing.

No, it is evidence of compromising ties with Russian interests.

Ties that could be used to blackmail him.

However, we KNOW that Carter Page, who Trump named as a campaign advisor, was talking to Russian intelligence agents.

We also know that Paul Manafort, his former campaign manager, is being forced to register as a Foreign Agent, due to his work for the Russian-puppet leader of Ukraine.

We know that Michael Flynn illegally accepted payments from a foreign power, in violation of his military retirement regulations. That foreign power is Russia. Federal Grand Jury has now issued subpoenas.



But yeah, there's nothing there. They should end the investigation immediately.

 

[Hercules56]

They made a claim. I don't accept it.

FACT: Flynn broke the law by accepting payment from a foreign government. The acting AG warned Trump about Flynn's connections to Russia. President Obama warned Trump not to trust or hire Flynn.

But you think there's "nothing there".

LOL!!!!!

 

[BobTheCoward]

No, it is evidence of compromising ties with Russian interests.

Ties that could be used to blackmail him.

However, we KNOW that Carter Page, who Trump named as a campaign advisor, was talking to Russian intelligence agents.

We also know that Paul Manafort, his former campaign manager, is being forced to register as a Foreign Agent, due to his work for the Russian-puppet leader of Ukraine.

We know that Michael Flynn illegally accepted payments from a foreign power, in violation of his military retirement regulations. That foreign power is Russia. Federal Grand Jury has now issued subpoenas.



But yeah, there's nothing there. They should end the investigation immediately.

Why do you keep on insisting that someone must reach a conclusion given the lack of evidence? Investigators are free to do as they wish. If they make a claim, they are responsible for presenting evidence. Until then, I don't have a conclusion about who did what when.

 

[BobTheCoward]

FACT: Flynn broke the law by accepting payment from a foreign government. The acting AG warned Trump about Flynn's connections to Russia. President Obama warned Trump not to trust or hire Flynn.

But you think there's "nothing there".

LOL!!!!!

You don't accept Trump's claim on the reason given for firing Flynn, either, right?

 

[Hercules56]

Why do you keep on insisting that someone must reach a conclusion given the lack of evidence? Investigators are free to do as they wish. If they make a claim, they are responsible for presenting evidence. Until then, I don't have a conclusion about who did what when.

We know that Flynn violated the Logan Act and the regulations pertaining to his military retirement.

Both were laws broken.

You actually gonna deny all of this?

Wow.

 

[BobTheCoward]

We know that Flynn violated the Logan Act and the regulations pertaining to his military retirement.

Both were laws broken.

You actually gonna deny all of this?

Wow.

I haven't said he didn't.

 

[Hercules56]

You don't accept Trump's claim on the reason given for firing Flynn, either, right?

Last time I checked, Trump fired Flynn because he was not honest.

Not because he violated the Logan Act. Not because be violated the terms of his military retirement. Not because of his connections to Turkey and Russia. Trump doesn't care about any of that.

It appears Trump thinks the cover-up is worse than the crime.

 

[Meadmaker]

On the contrary, a whole bunch of people are saying just that: the election was stolen. And those serious claims need a full investigation. This is not some easy to dismiss or easily refute claim like the Birth Certificate.

16 domesticand at least one foreign intelligence and//or law enforcement agency has said there is credible evidence that Russian operatives influenced the outcome of the election. This information has been corroborated by several independent media outlets.

GIven the supreme importance of guaranteeing power in our government is ONLY transferred by a demonstrably clean vote the Usurper's removal of the only remaining gov't official with both the will and the necessary power to get to the bottom of this is damning.

(emphasis added)


The two highlighted phrases are not synonymous.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

(emphasis added)
The two highlighted phrases are not synonymous.

No but if you add in Comey's apparent personal bias that Clinton was guilty of something he just couldn't prove you might make a case.


The plot thickens. Am I the only one who didn't know there was a Grand Jury convened?

It would appear those subpoenas were issued before the 'Comey fired' letter went out.

CNN learned of the subpoenas hours before President Donald Trump fired FBI director James Comey.

The subpoenas represent the first sign of a significant escalation of activity in the FBI's broader investigation begun last July into possible ties between Trump campaign associates and Russia.

 

[TraneWreck]

Wait, are you now saying that Comey did not mishandle the Hillary email affair?

If that was the actual reason, why wait 5 months?

These two things can be true at once:

1) Comey mishandled the Clinton email fake scandal.
2) It's deeply concerning that Trump fired him.

 

[PhantomWolf]

And not praising him when he said he wasn't, right?

Gotta say, genius move by Trump here, blaming it all on being unfiar to Hillary!

I'd say only to Trump fans that really don't care because they'd have thought it a genius move no matter what he did including having him called to the White House and publicly executed on the front lawn.

The issue with Trump's claim is that at the time Trump was acting as Comey's cheerleader. You don't get to cheer on someone and then six months later declare that the very thing you cheered on was a firing offence. If it's a firing offence now, then it was 6 months ago too when you were all for it. What that reeks of is hypocrisy.

There is also the matter that the actions aren't Trump's concern as a boss. They were dealt with under Comey's boss at the time, Obama. If it was a fireable offence, then he should have been fired then. If you don't get why then look at it this way. You do something in your job that breeches the rules. Your boss considers it and lets you off with a warning. Six months later a new boss comes in and decides that the warning was insufficient and fires you for something that you didn't even do on his watch and had been actioned already. See why such a thing is unfair?

What else do we let this sort of thing happen for? If a new moderator doesn't like how one of your posts was handled six months ago, should they be allowed to have you banned over it? In a new Prosecutor decides that he didn't like that you were warned rather than prosecuted for something, should he be able to restart legal actions against you after they were dealt with?

If this sort of thing is allowable and fine, then no one is ever safe from further retaliation over their actions because anyone can later revise the issue and take further actions against you. This is a totally unjustifiable and unfair way to live, and why such things as double jeopardy laws were included in our criminal justice systems.

Now in all of this, I'm not disagreeing with Trump firing Comey, he has that right, though it is rarely used, but what I am saying is that it's not a Genius move to blame it on the way that he handled the Clinton Email Case since at the time Trump was his biggest cheer-leader and so now in claiming to be firing him for it, Trump is behaving hypocritically.

 

[thaiboxerken]

If that was the actual reason, why wait 5 months?

These two things can be true at once:

1) Comey mishandled the Clinton email fake scandal.
2) It's deeply concerning that Trump fired him.

It's like going into a friend's wallet and taking $20. Then,when getting caught doing so, saying "you told me last year I could borrow $20."