Merged Trump Fires Comey....

[Hercules56]

Trump just fired the guy who was heading the Justice Department investigation into possible ties between his campaign and Russia/hackers, and ties between Trump and foreign interests.

But there's nothing there. No evidence of anything. No evidence of a cover-up or an attempt to hurt the investigation.

 

[Hercules56]

The FBI is free to do what it wants. We simply should not accept their opinions without them presenting evidence.

There is now a Grand Jury issuing subpoenas in Flynn's case, and Senator McCain just called for a special commission to investigate Trump's Russia ties.

But yeah, there's no evidence of anything.

Its all just folks being butthurt over the election.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If the government were a reality TV show, the ratings would be through the roof. YUGE!

Perhaps you missed the Trump Reality TV Show. It plays 24/7 on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Trump just fired the guy who was heading the Justice Department investigation into possible ties between his campaign and Russia/hackers, and ties between Trump and foreign interests.

But there's nothing there. No evidence of anything. No evidence of a cover-up or an attempt to hurt the investigation.

No, you actually don't have evidence for the cover up. It is an action that supports any claim that doesn't simply contradict it. It is no more evidence of cover up than evidence Trump thought Comey was doing a bad job.

 

[BobTheCoward]

There is now a Grand Jury issuing subpoenas in Flynn's case, and Senator McCain just called for a special commission to investigate Trump's Russia ties.

But yeah, there's no evidence of anything.

Its all just folks being butthurt over the election.

As skeptics we don't accept claims where the evidence is presented in secret. We require evidence in the open to base conclusions.

 

[Hercules56]

No, you actually don't have evidence for the cover up. It is an action that supports any claim that doesn't simply contradict it. It is no more evidence of cover up than evidence Trump thought Comey was doing a bad job.

Yes, and Reagan never sold weapons to Iran.

And Nixon did nothing wrong.

Its all just butthurt Democrats who can't get over the election.

Trump won fair and square and has no conflicts of interest in foreign nations. Flynn, Page, Manafort are all innocent of any wrongdoing.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Yes, and Reagan never sold weapons to Iran.

And Nixon did nothing wrong.

Its all just butthurt Democrats who can't get over the election.

Trump won fair and square and has no conflicts of interest in foreign nations. Flynn, Page, Manafort are all innocent of any wrongdoing.

Why do you insist on reaching conclusions without evidence? First it was they did something wrong, and now you say they didn't. Both are positions without evidence.

 

[Hercules56]

As skeptics we don't accept claims where the evidence is presented in secret. We require evidence in the open to base conclusions.

There's healthy, logical, rational skepticism.

And then there's simply hyperpartisan denial, driven by a personal political agenda.

Like 9-11 Truthers, Holocaust Deniers, and Moon Landing nuts.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

Breaking news that may shed light on the timing of this newest bit of autocracy:

https://www.facebook.com/newsandguts/posts/242888802782762

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And the hacking of voter registration databases? The fake/doctored emails? The fact our voting machines are not secure and demonstrably have not been since the mid 2000s? The statistical analyses that show anomalies in pro-Clinton precincts and counties?

There is more than enough evidence to invalidate this so-called election, if not outright declare Clinton the rightful winner.

I still have concerns about this after it was demonstrated for all to see how easy it was to hack and alter the Diebold voting machines and the issue was just ignored.

I think denial was a part of it. Gore getting frustrated with the recounts was another part. Of course Bush didn't want to take it seriously the same way Trump doesn't want the Russia thing taken seriously.

But there was a demonstration just how easy it was to change those results.

Our election integrity has been a mess since Bush v Gore. This year it escalated.

I think Comey should have been fired. Obama should have fired him after the Oct surprise letter but that would have created a political firestorm.

But none of that is mutually exclusive of Trump firing Comey because Comey couldn't be controlled. This just raises the likelihood Trump was involved in the Russian efforts to influence the campaign. There's no way his underlings did all this without Trump knowing what they were doing.

 

[BobTheCoward]

There's healthy, logical, rational skepticism.

And then there's simply hyperpartisan denial, driven by a personal political agenda.

Like 9-11 Truthers, Holocaust Deniers, and Moon Landing nuts.

Which I do not have because I'm not a trump supporter (or a Clinton supporters). My political agenda is so off the grid of American politics that I really don't fit into the US framework.

 

[Hercules56]

Why do you insist on reaching conclusions without evidence? First it was they did something wrong, and now you say they didn't. Both are positions without evidence.

Excuse me, but did you just say that there is no evidence Flynn, or Page, or Trump has done anything wrong?

No evidence at all?

That's not intelligent skepticism, that's just hyper-partisan denial.

Welcome to the world of 9-11 Truthers and Holocaust Deniers, my friend.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

This sure is one finely-tuned machine!

 

[ChristianProgressive]

I have issues with three of those but I just want to focus on one?

Where does it say you can't have a fair election because a private entity presents doctored documents?

Because changing a person's vote by lying to them is really no different than doing it more directly.

Furthermore, wikileaks is not a private entitty, it is a front and disseminator of Russian propaganda.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Excuse me, but did you just say that there is no evidence Flynn, or Page, or Trump has done anything wrong?

No evidence at all?

That's not intelligent skepticism, that's just hyper-partisan denial.

Welcome to the world of 9-11 Truthers and Holocaust Deniers, my friend.

I never specified who I of course think Flynn and page did something wrong. I do think Trump has does wrong things (Trump University), but Russian stuff there is a lack of evidence.

 

[Hercules56]

Breaking news that may shed light on the timing of this newest bit of autocracy:

https://www.facebook.com/newsandguts/posts/242888802782762

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/

Justice Department under Comey issued subpoena against Flynn, hours before he was fired?

Just a coincidence.

There's nothing there.

Look away!!!! Look away!!!!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Manafort will be forced to register an an agent of a Foreign Regime.

Flynn violated the Logan Act.

Trump violated The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

And this was all BEFORE Trump became President.

There's nothing there?

Tell that to Nixon.

I know. What is with people still spouting the nonsense there is no evidence.

There is growing evidence of wrongdoing here. Just because the investigation has not concluded does not mean there is no evidence.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Because changing a person's vote by lying to them is really no different than doing it more directly.

Furthermore, wikileaks is not a private entitty, it is a front and disseminator of Russian propaganda.

You can be a private entity that serves a government interest. That is why people had such a problem with blackwater.

You are allowed to lie to people in this country.

 

[Hercules56]

I never specified who I of course think Flynn and page did something wrong. I do think Trump has does wrong things (Trump University), but Russian stuff there is a lack of evidence.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Trump helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan in a horrible location, with the help of a corrupt Transportation Minister who has a track record of building very wasteful projects and has ties with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

And that's just the beginning.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

I still have concerns about this after it was demonstrated for all to see how easy it was to hack and alter the Diebold voting machines and the issue was just ignored.

I think denial was a part of it. Gore getting frustrated with the recounts was another part. Of course Bush didn't want to take it seriously the same way Trump doesn't want the Russia thing taken seriously.

But there was a demonstration just how easy it was to change those results.

Our election integrity has been a mess since Bush v Gore. This year it escalated.

I think Comey should have been fired. Obama should have fired him after the Oct surprise letter but that would have created a political firestorm.

But none of that is mutually exclusive of Trump firing Comey because Comey couldn't be controlled. This just raises the likelihood Trump was involved in the Russian efforts to influence the campaign. There's no way his underlings did all this without Trump knowing what they were doing.

I'm not disagreeing with you on any major point here.