Why can't Corbyn connect with public?

[Sideroxylon]

I'm happy you can so accurately categorise your original question.

Why, yes I can. It was on topic however.

 

[angrysoba]

No, its pretty straight forward. What kind of British politician actually loves terrorists though?

Well, there's always this:

Martin McGuinness played a huge role in bringing about peace in Northern Ireland. He was a great family man and my thoughts are with them

Love from Jezza.

 

[Craig B]

Well, there's always this:



Love from Jezza.

Ian Paisley loved McGuinness even more.

What followed became a very public friendship. Images of the pair laughing and joking together earned them the nickname "The Chuckle Brothers".​

Maybe Ian was an antisemite, terrorist lover, etc. Certainly there were a good few terrorists in the Orange Order, as in the IRA, so it's not impossible.

 

[angrysoba]

Ian Paisley loved McGuinness even more.

What followed became a very public friendship. Images of the pair laughing and joking together earned them the nickname "The Chuckle Brothers".​

Maybe Ian was an antisemite, terrorist lover, etc. Certainly there were a good few terrorists in the Orange Order, as in the IRA, so it's not impossible.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ian Paisley was all of those. A definite bigot and if Jon Ronson is to be believed then probably an anti-semite and a supporter of terrorism. Yes indeed. How does this get Jeremy Corbyn off the hook?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ian Paisley was all of those. A definite bigot and if Jon Ronson is to be believed then probably an anti-semite and a supporter of terrorism. Yes indeed. How does this get Jeremy Corbyn off the hook?

Incidentally which part of the quote is wrong in your opinion?

 

[Craig B]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ian Paisley was all of those. A definite bigot and if Jon Ronson is to be believed then probably an anti-semite and a supporter of terrorism. Yes indeed. How does this get Jeremy Corbyn off the hook?

Because Paisley was not denounced as a terrorist when he adopted peaceful political activities. McGuinness also adopted these. Corbyn is being denounced not because he ever did anything terroristic himself, but because he said polite things when McGuinness died. Now tell me, if some British politician had said equally polite things when Paisley died, about his family, would you, angrysoba, have put him on a "hook", calling that politician a "terrorist lover"?

Here is the Belfast Telegraph describing McGuinness' reaction to Paisley's death, and the Paisley family response. Does that make McGuinness a lover of Orange bigots? Probably not.

Now what is happening here is that "terrorist lover" is being used as a code word for "supporter of a United Ireland". If you want to accuse Corbyn of terrorism, find a terrorist act that Corbyn approves, and I'll join you in denouncing him, for there is nothing more deplorable than waging war on civilians, and murdering innocent people. But Corbyn's statement you cite "Martin McGuinness played a huge role in bringing about peace in Northern Ireland" makes clear that he was celebrating not terrorism, but the peaceful settlement in N Ireland, with which figures like McGuiness (and Paisley) were finally associated.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Well, there's always this:



Love from Jezza.

Theresa May also offered her condolences to his family and said "he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building a better Northern Ireland."

 

[baron]

Just heard Corbyn being interviewed on TV. He sounds like he's taken an overdose, as if it's too much of an effort for him to form the words. He's a total joke.

 

[baron]

Theresa May also offered her condolences to his family and said "he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building a better Northern Ireland."

One is a fact and the other is a eulogy.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

One is a fact and the other is a eulogy.

What because Corbyn suggested he was a 'great family man'? How about his being 'indispensable'? You're claiming a distinction that I for one simply don't see.

The fact is that despite his past all sides seem to acknowledge his contribution to the peace process, condolences and eulogies were issued from across the political spectrum.

 

[baron]

What because Corbyn suggested he was a 'great family man'? How about his being 'indispensable'? You're claiming a distinction that I for one simply don't see.

Well you won't if you misrepresent the quotes. May said he "played an indispensable role", not that he was indispensable, and even if she did say that it's hardly high personal praise. There was no commentary in that quote referencing McGuinness as a person.

The fact is that despite his past all sides seem to acknowledge his contribution to the peace process, condolences and eulogies were issued from across the political spectrum.

The fact he was a murdering terrorist doesn't preclude him from contributing to the peace process and vice-versa. I don't believe you can't distinguish between personal praise and acknowledgement of achievement.

 

[dudalb]

Labor will get nowhere as long as Corbyn is in charge and is the face of the party.
You can scream about how the Tories are Worse all you want, but that does not change the fact that Corbyn has got to go as a first step to make Labor competitive. But then hard line ideologues are seldom known for their pragmatism.

 

[Giz]

Labor will get nowhere as long as Corbyn is in charge and is the face of the party.
You can scream about how the Tories are Worse all you want, but that does not change the fact that Corbyn has got to go as a first step to make Labor competitive. But then hard line ideologues are seldom known for their pragmatism.

Corbyn is highly pragmatic; once labour is reduced to a hard core rump, it will find it easier to maintain ideological purity.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Labor will get nowhere as long as Corbyn is in charge and is the face of the party.
You can scream about how the Tories are Worse all you want, but that does not change the fact that Corbyn has got to go as a first step to make Labor competitive. But then hard line ideologues are seldom known for their pragmatism.

Read what you wrote again. It literally makes no sense. That's the state of politics these days.

 

[angrysoba]

Incidentally which part of the quote is wrong in your opinion?

Because Paisley was not denounced as a terrorist when he adopted peaceful political activities. McGuinness also adopted these. Corbyn is being denounced not because he ever did anything terroristic himself, but because he said polite things when McGuinness died. Now tell me, if some British politician had said equally polite things when Paisley died, about his family, would you, angrysoba, have put him on a "hook", calling that politician a "terrorist lover"?

Here is the Belfast Telegraph describing McGuinness' reaction to Paisley's death, and the Paisley family response. Does that make McGuinness a lover of Orange bigots? Probably not.

Now what is happening here is that "terrorist lover" is being used as a code word for "supporter of a United Ireland". If you want to accuse Corbyn of terrorism, find a terrorist act that Corbyn approves, and I'll join you in denouncing him, for there is nothing more deplorable than waging war on civilians, and murdering innocent people. But Corbyn's statement you cite "Martin McGuinness played a huge role in bringing about peace in Northern Ireland" makes clear that he was celebrating not terrorism, but the peaceful settlement in N Ireland, with which figures like McGuiness (and Paisley) were finally associated.

Theresa May also offered her condolences to his family and said "he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building a better Northern Ireland."

I'm in favour of a united Ireland myself, but that doesn't change the fact that Martin McGuinness was a terrorist who Jeremy Corbyn was clearly fond of. The fact that other politicians engaged in some soppy post-mortem praise for him makes no difference.

 

[Craig B]

I'm in favour of a united Ireland myself, but that doesn't change the fact that Martin McGuinness was a terrorist who Jeremy Corbyn was clearly fond of. The fact that other politicians engaged in some soppy post-mortem praise for him makes no difference.

So one of the following is a "terrorist lover", and the other is "soppy".

"he played an indispensable role in bringing the Republican movement away from violence to peaceful and democratic means and to building a better Northern Ireland."

"Martin McGuinness played a huge role in bringing about peace in Northern Ireland"​

Ah, but which?

Now, let's stop trying to kid one another. Corbyn is being slandered and abused by the right. And we've seen these "lovers" before, haven't we? In the USA mainly. Back in the McCarthy days there were "commie lovers", and in the Deep South there were "lovers", the name of the object of whose affections would be auto censored in this forum.

 

[dudalb]

Read what you wrote again. It literally makes no sense. That's the state of politics these days.

And your defense of Corbyn as Labor Leader makes no sense...as far as making Labor viable again.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I'm in favour of a united Ireland myself, but that doesn't change the fact that Martin McGuinness was a terrorist who Jeremy Corbyn was clearly fond of. The fact that other politicians engaged in some soppy post-mortem praise for him makes no difference.

This doesn't address the question you were asked though. It just reasserts 'facts' without providing evidence.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

And your defense of Corbyn as Labor Leader makes no sense...as far as making Labor viable again.

I have no interest in making labour 'viable' again when that word is merely code for making them right wing again.

And whether or not they are viable it doesn't change what I wrote. The idea that the Tories are worse than Labour but Labour need to change their front man to make them competitive with the worse party literally makes no sense. It may well be true, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. And that's the ludicrous state of British politics today. The theresa may collard has been well and truly drunk.

She wants to bring back fox hunting ffs! That's every bit as ridiculous ludicrous and nonsensical as anything Corbyn is accused of wanting. She's becoming a far right parody of herself and yet the seals continue to applaud.

My defence of Corbyn amounts to the fact that he is one of the very few left of centre voices left in English politics. He might be a pretty crappy one but he is all we've got at the minute. I'm not prepared to throw him under the bus to clear the way for a permanent right wing government as the US has.

 

[MikeG]

And your defense of Corbyn as Labor Leader makes no sense...as far as making Labor viable again.

(Labour.)

And of course, making Labour viable is the over-riding criteria against which Corbyn should be judged. Succeed at that then all his other failings can be overlooked to an extent. Fail, and he's got to go, and that judgement will be made in 4 weeks time.