Why can't Corbyn connect with public?

I was gonna post a really long diatribe however, I will post the world's greatest vote winner strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable, strong and stable.
 
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The thing that still amazes me is in a society where billions are spent annually on studying exactly how to market things to people and influence how they think about things and have been for decades so many people still think that media isn't pretty much the only thing that matters.

Could anyone with a straight face say if all the parties at the next election the Tories have the policies that will benefit the most people? And yet they will win easily. Turkeys WILL vote for Christmas if Santa tells them it's a good idea.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The thing that still amazes me is in a society where billions are spent annually on studying exactly how to market things to people and influence how they think about things and have been for decades so many people still think that media isn't pretty much the only thing that matters.

Could anyone with a straight face say if all the parties at the next election the Tories have the policies that will benefit the most people? And yet they will win easily. Turkeys WILL vote for Christmas if Santa tells them it's a good idea.
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Would you?


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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The thing that still amazes me is in a society where billions are spent annually on studying exactly how to market things to people and influence how they think about things and have been for decades so many people still think that media isn't pretty much the only thing that matters.

Could anyone with a straight face say if all the parties at the next election the Tories have the policies that will benefit the most people? And yet they will win easily. Turkeys WILL vote for Christmas if Santa tells them it's a good idea.
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"It was The Sun wot won it"
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Would you?


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Would I what?

Be a turkey voting for Xmas? I'd be a fool if i said i couldn't be. We all have to be aware of the fact that we are being influenced by everything we see and hear and do our best to correct for that.

It's one of the reasons i come here to test my ideas and see what other people think about them.

I try my best to be aware of my blindspots and one thing i lament here is that there is no real debate on the issues of Scottish independence from informed opposition because it is one area i know where my passion could be hoodwinked.

On the Corbyn issue there are people like the Don who can analyse the politics and lament the situation but even there I'm not sure it's anything more than finding reasons to support. His gut feel on a man he doesn't support.

Others are just quite happy to put the boot in because their right wing views have been rationalised as centrist so they don't feel like the petty xenophobes that they are.

Try to keep your eye on the ball. A hard right government that is fleeting with going full 1984 led by a poor Maggie Thatcher impersonator propped up by a rabid right wing press who make money out if villifying anything 'foreign'.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
...

Others are just quite happy to put the boot in because their right wing views have been rationalised as centrist so they don't feel like the petty xenophobes that they are.

Try to keep your eye on the ball. A hard right government that is fleeting with going full 1984 led by a poor Maggie Thatcher impersonator propped up by a rabid right wing press who make money out if villifying anything 'foreign'.
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:thumbsup:
 
My father is in his late 70s. When he was a young boy, he lost his mother to illness - at a time when there was no national health service, and so a doctor had to be paid to come and see her as she withered away.

For some 60 odd years my father had been a Labour voter who has blamed the Conservatives for wanting the sort of society where this was possible. It's not a rational position for him - it's in his bones. If you argue that you want to vote Conservative or that he should, on a gut level he literally treats it like you're arguing that his mother dying was the right and proper thing. This is a man who would yell at the television whenever Thatcher appeared, and who walked around with a smile on his face for days after she died. Who loves it when Tory campaigners come to the door because it's a chance to abuse them.

And the upcoming local elections and the following general will be the first time in his life that he won't be voting Labour - because he thinks Corbyn is a useless fool.

Now it won't make a difference, because where we live is a massively safe Tory seat. But Corbyn isn't just losing the centre ground. He's losing people who have voted Labour all their lives. People who equate Tory governments with death.

This is the magnitude of his problem. Unless something extraordinary happens, he's going to lose HUGE.

The interesting question to me is... will he quit afterwards? So far Corbyn has been rather determined to remain in office. If he simply refuses to quit... if his voters keep voting him leader... then what?
 
because he is too ideological? and because he is already smeared as a "communist" which would naturally being hostility from the media
 
Setsurinvich said:
because he is too ideological? and because he is already smeared as a "communist" which would naturally being hostility from the media
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Oh for pity sake. You can actually look up his voting record, and read his actual quotes. Forget the "smearing" nonsense. No one is misrepresenting him. His record is a matter of public knowledge, and the nasty press have absolutely nothing to do with it. They (the press) see the exact same idiot* the rest of us see, and they are entitled to report it as they see it.

*Overstating it, perhaps, but despite the benefits of a private prep school education he managed only 2 grade E "A" levels. He's no Einstein.
 
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Setsurinvich said:
because he is too ideological? and because he is already smeared as a "communist" which would naturally being hostility from the media
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At least Corbyn is not just protecting the interests of a few rich, and cutting public spending for the Institute of Fiscal Studies. Lloyds Bank seems to be closing most of its branches at the moment. I don't think that's good for economic growth.

Soviet Russia was always a communism of the palest pink. Vietnam was communist. North Korea is still supposed to be communist. China is still supposed to be communist though it has a booming stock market and probably credit default swaps.

I think it would be helpful to Corbyn in the mind of the public and House of Commons if he had a wise and able policy towards the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar, and even some military knowledge and strategic ability, and banking skills to help make him up to the job, and also to show some respect to the royal family for a sense of history. Traditionally every child born alive is either a little Liberal or else a little Conservative according to Gilbert and Sullivan operas.

There is a bit about this sort of thing in a book called Modern Money and Unemployment by Isidore Ostrer published in 1964:

Parallel with the confirmed improvement in the standard of living in Russia, the Soviet Government's outlook will inevitably change, just as much as the British Labour Party sand trade unions have changed their views and their policies since the days of Keir Hardie.

This is a natural evolution. The so-called capitalist nations are changing in a similar way - gradually coming to be quite willing to accept the best points of economic policy in any of the communist nations. All civilized nations, called by any name, obviously are willing to learn from anybody - to discard the bad and accept the good........

Owning all the means of production and distribution as in Russia would make this problem (unemployment) much easier - but on the other side of the balance sheet the ownership of all the means of production creates vast difficulties and deficiencies. Any profound and unbiased thinker must come to this conclusion.
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Thing is, can't really find anything domestically I disagree with him on. For some reason though I can't believe that he has the capacity to bring it about. Perhaps that's a problem in the eyes of public. A career politician who hasn't achieved anything in his career.


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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
A lot in there to agree with. Imagine an alternative universe in which the media was highly sympathetic to Corbyn and spinning his every move in a positive light as the Mail Sun and Express do to some extent with the deplorable May. I don't believe anyone who says Labour wouldn't be 10-20 points better off in the polls with exactly the same policies.
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Heck a balanced media would be probably be worth 10 points to Labour. May goes to court to stop a plan for dealing with air pollution being published, Boris announces that we will probably bomb Syria if Trump asks us to, oh and we won't bother with any silly arliamentary debate. If Corbyn were competent he would be hammering away at may over her aversion to submitting her decisions to parliamentary oversight, but like every other open goal the Tories offer up it goes begging.
 
I'm sorry but that is just wishful thinking. The public really aren't that stupid that the papers (which only a few read these days anyway) can greatly influence anything.

Here is a list of the national papers, ranked by circulation.

Rounding up and totting up, and assuming that no-one reads two different papers in a day, and the total of papers in circulation in a day is about 8.7 million. There are 45.3 million registered voters in the UK.

So fewer than one in 5 voters reads a paper. Therefore anyone who thinks that Labour would be 20 points better off if the papers were all favourable to Labour can't do maths.
 
You do understand that the government stays in place whilst parliament is in recess for the election, don't you? There would actually be no way of consulting parliament anyway, and ministers would have to just take the decision if the question arose. Boris was being nothing more than factual. That is the situation whenever parliament is in recess.
 
MikeG said:
I'm sorry but that is just wishful thinking. The public really aren't that stupid that the papers (which only a few read these days anyway) can greatly influence anything.

Here is a list of the national papers, ranked by circulation.

Rounding up and totting up, and assuming that no-one reads two different papers in a day, and the total of papers in circulation in a day is about 8.7 million. There are 45.3 million registered voters in the UK.

So fewer than one in 5 voters reads a paper. Therefore anyone who thinks that Labour would be 20 points better off if the papers were all favourable to Labour can't do maths.
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<SNIP>

Someone being dishonest <SNIP> might try to claim the entire media only reaches 8.7m people which could be proven wrong in pico seconds by checking out the Mail online's 11.5m daily hits alone.

The Daily Mail incidentally has an estimated readership (not circulation) of 3.5m. NRS figures show that around 35m people read a paper at least once a month and that rises to about 45m when you include multiplatform.

And that's only for the newspapers. We haven't even talked about TV or online only sources yet.

So there you go. Only <SNIP> thinks the media is not a great influence. Only <SNIP> would thinks you would need to be stupid to be influenced by the media. Luckily for the media such people are apparently not in short supply.

Edited by Locknar: 
SNIPed, breach of rule 0, rule 12.
 
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MikeG said:
I'm sorry but that is just wishful thinking. The public really aren't that stupid that the papers (which only a few read these days anyway) can greatly influence anything.

Here is a list of the national papers, ranked by circulation.

Rounding up and totting up, and assuming that no-one reads two different papers in a day, and the total of papers in circulation in a day is about 8.7 million. There are 45.3 million registered voters in the UK.

So fewer than one in 5 voters reads a paper. Therefore anyone who thinks that Labour would be 20 points better off if the papers were all favourable to Labour can't do maths.
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Pure la la land.

The public were stupid enough to believe 350 million quid a week would be given to the NHS if only we were smart enough to leave the EU.

A lot of Scots pensioners were fooled into thinking their pension were unsafe if they voted yes.

Even more Scots persons were idiotic enough to believe that the only way to guarantee staying in the EU was to vote No because the media told them that.

The UK is full of more than enough dumb asses that believe the nonsense peddled to them. It is spread all over the internet and facebook and other social media outlets. Get your head out of the chip paper.
 
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