UK General Election

[lionking]

You would think that an opposition party that is in disarray, is confused over its leadership, and is way down in the polls, would rather wait until the planned date for the next election so that they can get their ducks in a row.

Took the words out of my mouth. Labour faces certain demolition in June under a hopeless leader. In 2020, under a new leader and with heightened voter unrest, they may just have stood a sucker's chance.

 

[lionking]

Well the nightmare scenario is that Corbyn argues that he just needed more time to get his message across and May was scared of that and so ran for the polls. Chuck in some denunciations of disloyalty inside the party and he could hang on to the leadership.

Surely not. If he even tries to hold on after a demoralising loss, he will confirm is utter disregard for the party and will go down as the worst Labour leader ever.

 

[ddt]

And Obama said "elections have consequences" - is he like Erdogan too?

How about Pierre Trudeau: "A man who tries to please all men by weakening his position or compromising his beliefs, in the end has neither position nor beliefs" - that is like Erdogan dialled up to 110%!!!1! No compromise - do exactly what I want!1!!

Oh, how about this one - a real Erdogan gem:
"Democracy means government by discussion, but it is only effective if you can stop people talking." - Oh wait, that was Clement Attlee.


All politicians (other than Corbyn) try to get their vision implemented in practical ways. That doesn't mean they are quasi-fascist.

They're not at all like May's statement. When May says "Now is not the time for division", while there are still 1,001 ways to implement Brexit, she does so to shut up debate and she means that everyone has to mindlessly goose-step behind her.

May has far from a stellar record when it comes to democratic attitudes. Remember that she suppressed a report from her civil servants about immigration because it was not negative enough?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

"The Scottish Independence Referendum Bill, setting out the arrangements for this referendum, was passed by the Scottish Parliament in November 2013, following an agreement between the Scottish and the United Kingdom governments"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

Again an agreement with Westminster will have to precede any referendum thus adding time.

Can Scotland ask for a referendum before the divorce from the EU is through? If not, again more time.

Scotland asked for a referendum last month. I'm not trying to be snippy I'm just not quite sure exactly what your question is getting at. This GE will have no formal effect on the Scotref no matter the result. The SNP already have all but three if the available seats. Another three won't make any odds.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Huh? There'll be a manifesto, you know, and you'll be able to buy one. We have a free press which will pick through it word by word. Could there possibly be any more serious scrutiny?

He almost managed that with a straight face. Serious scrutiny from the press ... Haha... Yeah sure.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

This is what is so bad about Corbyn and his supporters - they prevent there being a credible opposition, which is bad for democracy and governance.

Nobody is prevented from anything. All those credible opposition folks can stand against the Tories and credibly oppose them if they want to.

You might prefer it if the only choice was two cheeks of the same backside of course.

 

[Craig B]

The only opposition party that seems to have its ducks in a row is the SNP. Maybe you could beg them to pretty please field candidates in England & Wales? For instance in the historic Scottish burgh of Islington.

Its been done, but not by Scottish nationalists. A century ago there was an Irish nationalist as MP for an English constituency (called Scotland).

 

[imodium]

Does holding this election kill the Tory election fraud investigation?
When labour appoints a new leader will the media, then the conservatives, call them a non opposition à la under Miliband and Corbyn?
Can the Tories please set up death camps for us earning under £150 grand a year, just about managing isn't living.

 

[Vixen]

<sigh> Looks like the SUN and the DAILY MAIL have already started their election campaign.

Let's face it, it was these two papers that swung it for BREXIT. One is owned by an Australian who lives in the USA (iirc) and the other by an Non-Domestic Resident (someone who gives his principle address as abroad to avoid UK Income Tax).

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Does holding this election kill the Tory election fraud investigation?
When labour appoints a new leader will the media, then the conservatives, call them a non opposition à la under Miliband and Corbyn?
Can the Tories please set up death camps for us earning under £150 grand a year, just about managing isn't living.

Nope. Channel 4 reporting upto 30 people facing criminal charges. Many Tory MPs.

 

[ddt]

Nobody is prevented from anything. All those credible opposition folks can stand against the Tories and credibly oppose them if they want to.

You might prefer it if the only choice was two cheeks of the same backside of course.

Of course, 7 weeks is far too few time for them to organize. You don't build up a party and an organization in such a short time.

As to the comparison of May with Erdogan, I'm not alone in that. From the Guardian:

Martin Kettle: May has trashed her own brand

Theresa May in Downing Street sounded like Turkey’s authoritarian president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Give me the unfettered authority to secure the Brexit I want, she said. Any attempt to stand in my way is disruptive and frivolous. So give me the power to act in the name of the people against parliament’s interference. It’s not a nice parallel. May has trashed her own brand.

 

[Giz]

As to the comparison of May with Erdogan, I'm not alone in that. From the Guardian:

It's still hyperbole when the Guardian does it.

 

[Rolfe]

You know, the SNP is in a good position here. Most of the seats in Scotland will be contested by sitting candidates. But even so, we have at least five seats we need to find credible candidates for. One good volunteer has already emerged. I spent some time this evening trying to persuade a stellar candidate to stand for another. Mostly, we're covered, but even addressing the few seats where we aren't is a headache.

Pity help most of the other opposition parties.

 

[MikeG]

Good point. That, again, though, sounds just like Erdogan.

.......and every politician in history who has just won a divisive vote. You're pushing the Erdogan thing far beyond any relationship with reality.

 

[MikeG]

You know, the SNP is in a good position here.......

Really? Maybe you were just focused on the narrow issue of having enough candidates in position, however.......

The other way of looking at it is that Scottish opposition to holding another Indyref, which runs to well over half of the electorate, might just help bolster the anti SNP vote. From the incredible heights of the last election it is hard to see the SNP doing anything but losing a few seats, and what would ordinarily be a stunning victory will look like an electoral setback for the party, for Sturgeon, and for the strength of her case in demanding a new referendum. I think the SNP have lots to lose, and very little to gain.

Further, what if Theresa May were to include "we'll reject calls for a Scottish referendum this parliament" in the Conservative manifesto? She will have a much strengthened hand for standing up to Sturgeon's self-interested demands.

 

[McHrozni]

You forgot: abolishing the GBP 100mn/week rebate that Mrs. T negotiated, and henceforth pay what everyone else is paying too.

Yeah, that too

Worsest deal ever, except for all the others indeed.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

You know, the SNP is in a good position here. Most of the seats in Scotland will be contested by sitting candidates. But even so, we have at least five seats we need to find credible candidates for. One good volunteer has already emerged. I spent some time this evening trying to persuade a stellar candidate to stand for another. Mostly, we're covered, but even addressing the few seats where we aren't is a headache.

Pity help most of the other opposition parties.

I gave this a little though and I think this election could truly push Scotland out of UK. Barring any surprises the election will result in England dominated by Tories and Scotland by SNP. Tories will ensure Brexit is a disaster and SNP will ensure Scots hear loud and often how Westminster is to blame for it all, pushing the support for independence up. Sturgeon only needs 50% plus one vote in a single referendum to justify independence, based on precedents provided by Brexit.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

I think the big deal in this election, which almost no-one has mentioned as far as I have seen, is the Parliament Act. Brexit wasn't in the last Conservative manifesto, other than in providing a referendum. It will obviously be in this new one. The Parliament Act prevents the Lords from rejecting government bills if they were in the ruling party manifesto. Strengthening the government's hand by getting a democratic mandate for the type of Brexit that they outline in the manifesto will remove the veto which the Lords currently hold. Imagine the situation where the Lords, and the Lords alone, reject the deal that Britain spent two years negotiating with the EU...........and don't forget for a second that the EU negotiators would know this was a possibility. Wanting the Brexit strategy in the manifesto isn't Erdoganesque, it is democracy.

 

[McHrozni]

I think May is a jerk doing a lame Maggie Thacther imitation,but calling her a dictator is really over the top.

Dictator in the making is a fair and balanced assessment.

Yeah, she is gaming the system. That means the system needs to be changed.

FPTP needs to go, the sooner the better.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

..........Every last promise made by the Leave campaign last year has been broken.........

Sheesh. What nonsense. As Brexit hasn't even begun to be negotiated, it is obviously nonsensical to say that any promises of post-Brexit Britain have been broken. Oh, and as we're 9 or 10 months post-referendum, shouldn't I (by your logic) be 9/12ths of £4300 worse off by now?