Kim Jong Un's Missile Fails

[fuelair]

They paraded some "new" missiles. I wonder if they have some special blank missiles that are painted a different color each year?

Were they the ones who faked a new aircraft six or seven years ago - or it may have been Middle East though.........

 

[fuelair]

They have detonated nukes and are working on an ICBM. The US made a lot of mistakes too during development. Eventually we got it right. NK are the most annoying sabre-rattlers around, but they may actually be nearing a point where they can strike us or others.

I'm more sickened thinking of the plight of the people of NK though rather than whatever missile Kim has developed. It's a concern, but those poor people have been suffering for a very long time.

They could start a revolt even if loads die doing it. They do not seem to have done that yet. My rule is that if you are in a country with really nasty bad guys in charge and they are killing people then you need to do your best to kill the bad guys yourselves. If you do not then you should have no expectation of other people killing them for you.

 

[Marcus]

Kim Jong Un reminds me a lot of Donald Trump, both big on bluster and bluff. While it is a bit fun watching Kim come up against a type he is not used to, the results of a game of nuclear chicken may not be so much fun.

 

[PhantomWolf]

From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid. That's nothing to sneeze at.

This Korea stuff does offer distraction to all the White House incompetence stories flying about. Is Trump wagging the dog?

If NK had the ability to launch EMP Satellites into orbit, then it would already have the ability to drop nukes anywhere in the US or on Earth.

Which actually raises a point. If NK's leadership was actually intelligent, they would stop the saber rattling, and then switch their Nuclear testing to Software simulated like the rest of the world and convert their ICBM program into a space program to launch their first communications and Weather satellites.

 

[Ziggurat]

If NK's leadership was actually intelligent, they would stop the saber rattling, and then switch their Nuclear testing to Software simulated like the rest of the world and convert their ICBM program into a space program to launch their first communications and Weather satellites.

Communications and weather satellites? No. Those are mostly going to be geosynchronous orbits. Low earth orbit is good enough for military applications. And as a matter of fact, they have pursued a "space" program:

http://www.space.com/31860-north-korea-satellite-launch.html

 

[Ziggurat]

Were they the ones who faked a new aircraft six or seven years ago - or it may have been Middle East though.........

Iran fakes military technology on a pretty regular basis. This might be what you're thinking of, though it's a little more recent:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/02/iran-new-stealth-fighter-jet-fake/318714/

 

[John Jones]

They could start a revolt even if loads die doing it. They do not seem to have done that yet. My rule is that if you are in a country with really nasty bad guys in charge and they are killing people then you need to do your best to kill the bad guys yourselves. If you do not then you should have no expectation of other people killing them for you.

That's some compassionate **** right there!

 

[Cleon]

Idle thought: I wonder if the missile failure was intentional. A successful launch would've probably invited an attack from the US, while failing to launch would've lost face with Kim's generals.

 

[Jim_MDP]

Idle thought: I wonder if the missile failure was intentional. A successful launch would've probably invited an attack from the US, while failing to launch would've lost face with Kim's generals.

As of a couple hours ago, there still had been no mention of the launch on state media. They could have just postponed if that would have served their purposes better and no one outside of the program and inner party would have ever believed otherwise. I doubt the generals are happier today with the fireball.

I just can't see an intentional failure/abort... especially on Lil' Kim's B-Day.

 

[rjh01]

I think there are rocket scientists in North Korea whose job security is now in jeopardy and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Kim Jong Un reminds me a lot of Donald Trump, both big on bluster and bluff. While it is a bit fun watching Kim come up against a type he is not used to, the results of a game of nuclear chicken may not be so much fun.

A lot of South Koreans are more worried about Trump than Kim. He seems much more likely to do something stupid with negative consequences for them. He has that horrible American trait of thinking it's OK to play politics with the lives of people in other countries.

 

[Jim_MDP]

I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.

I'm not so sure, though I know nothing of their education system.
But they get to ignore the normal social pressures and freedom of choice the west is used to. Hell... they don't even need parental permission.

You want physicists, doctors, mechanics or farmers?
Test for the aptitudes you select and Bob's your uncle.
China already does much the same for their competitive sports (they're taking over Snooker as we speak, just because they feel like it) and may do something similar in academia.

No need to wait for whatever personnel... just train 'em up (usual delays for schooling apply of course). Their social programming will assure an acceptable level of "enthusiasm". Who am I kidding... it's certainly a "great honor" to be selected. The more challenging the discipline, the better your family eats.

 

[Reheat]

I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.

I think everyone is ignoring the fact that many of the scientists are NOT Korean. In fact, I'd guess there's only a few Koreans in the group.

 

[Reheat]

A lot of South Koreans are more worried about Trump than Kim. He seems much more likely to do something stupid with negative consequences for them. He has that horrible American trait of thinking it's OK to play politics with the lives of people in other countries.

Yea, South Koreans read newspapers too, you know. They are not "critical thinkers" like everyone here.

This issue has been a festering sore for far too long. South Koreans fully realize they are being held hostage for resolving the problem, once and for all. There is no easy solution, likely not a prudent military option at all. The key is China. Perhaps that will change, perhaps not.

Part of the reason this bellicose is being taken so seriously now, is three fold. First it's that time of year that the Norks raise hell because of the annual exercises. Next, there will be an Presidential election here on 9 May due to the previous President being impeached for corruption. The leading candidate is now a liberal. They are not likely to be as accommodating as a conservative Administration. They will cooperate, but not as enthusiastically as a conservative administration. They will also likely provide unfettered aid to the Norks. The last time that happened it embolden them and provided funds to accelerate the Norks nuclear program. And the last reason you're seeing so many high level US Officials visiting is because if that doesn't happen to reassure them, South Korea is likely to develop their own Nukes. Next, the Japanese will want them too. So, here we go with the nuclearization of the entire Pacific Rim nations. They could both do it in a heartbeat.

Your distrust or criticism of Trump is for naught. He is the US President and the has multiple advisors who understand the situation much better than most. He trusts them, but he does need to stop his onerous tweeting.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why do you think that? The evidence that exists suggests he is very much in control given that he has purged so many of the top brass.

Thanks. It's like seeing people talking about Captain T of the Starship Enterprise.

What is that supposed to mean?


As for Un being nothing but a figurehead, that's pure ignorance.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I doubt if there would be many top notch rocket scientists in NK. If they get rid of one or two then that would delay further progress.

What do you base this assumption on?

So many people in this thread know so little about NK, most of this thread is nothing but uninformed speculation.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not so sure, though I know nothing of their education system.
But they get to ignore the normal social pressures and freedom of choice the west is used to. Hell... they don't even need parental permission.

You want physicists, doctors, mechanics or farmers?
Test for the aptitudes you select and Bob's your uncle.
China already does much the same for their competitive sports (they're taking over Snooker as we speak, just because they feel like it) and may do something similar in academia.

No need to wait for whatever personnel... just train 'em up (usual delays for schooling apply of course). Their social programming will assure an acceptable level of "enthusiasm". Who am I kidding... it's certainly a "great honor" to be selected. The more challenging the discipline, the better your family eats.

I believe the system is more that the upper crust's children all get higher education. But they also get the same steady diet of totalitarian propaganda their whole lives.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yea, South Koreans read newspapers too, you know. They are not "critical thinkers" like everyone here.

This issue has been a festering sore for far too long. South Koreans fully realize they are being held hostage for resolving the problem, once and for all. There is no easy solution, likely not a prudent military option at all. The key is China. Perhaps that will change, perhaps not.

Part of the reason this bellicose is being taken so seriously now, is three fold. First it's that time of year that the Norks raise hell because of the annual exercises. Next, there will be an Presidential election here on 9 May due to the previous President being impeached for corruption. The leading candidate is now a liberal. They are not likely to be as accommodating as a conservative Administration. They will cooperate, but not as enthusiastically as a conservative administration. They will also likely provide unfettered aid to the Norks. The last time that happened it embolden them and provided funds to accelerate the Norks nuclear program. And the last reason you're seeing so many high level US Officials visiting is because if that doesn't happen to reassure them, South Korea is likely to develop their own Nukes. Next, the Japanese will want them too. So, here we go with the nuclearization of the entire Pacific Rim nations. They could both do it in a heartbeat.

Your distrust or criticism of Trump is for naught. He is the US President and the has multiple advisors who understand the situation much better than most. He trusts them, but he does need to stop his onerous tweeting.

I'm not sure i suggested South Koreans don't read newspapers. So not sure what the eyeroll is about.

South Koreans have dealt with the Kim's to the north for decades and had very little fear that there was any real threat from him. Once you add the unpredictable Trump to that mix the chances of something stupid happening multiply. That's the concern.

And yes tweeting threats to NK is not big or clever. And i doubt he would be doing it if the likely battleground was Seattle rather than Seoul.

 

[Jim_MDP]

I believe the system is more that the upper crust's children all get higher education. But they also get the same steady diet of totalitarian propaganda their whole lives.

I agree completely, though I expect there's at least some socialist upward mobility.

My thought was that there's no problem at all growing their own stable of rocket surgeons. And it's neither new tech nor new ambitions... if I'm on the mark, they've been doing it for decades.

 

[Reheat]

I'm not sure i suggested South Koreans don't read newspapers. So not sure what the eyeroll is about.

The news media is all about how bad Trump is. Do you not read that tripe. Apparently you read it here. Some people believe that perhaps to include you.

South Koreans have dealt with the Kim's to the north for decades and had very little fear that there was any real threat from him. Once you add the unpredictable Trump to that mix the chances of something stupid happening multiply. That's the concern.

Do you not realize that's all changed? How much have they managed to reduce the size of their nukes? Will they fit on a short range missile. It is simply no longer an SK problem.

And yes tweeting threats to NK is not big or clever. And i doubt he would be doing it if the likely battleground was Seattle rather than Seoul.

Don't bet on it. NK needs to understand that South Korea will become an island if they try any of the crap they've threatened. That might work or not while searching for a solution to the problem.