Kim Jong Un's Missile Fails

[Reheat]

I really feel sorry for those in other Countries who don't understand the significance of this issue. If the Norks develop an ICBM that is capable of transporting a small enough Nuke, no Country on the face of the earth is safe. They will sell it to those who can pay their price. "Fat Boy" Kim needs lot of cheese to make his belly bigger.

 

[Aepervius]

I really feel sorry for those in other Countries who don't understand the significance of this issue. If the Norks develop an ICBM that is capable of transporting a small enough Nuke, no Country on the face of the earth is safe. They will sell it to those who can pay their price. "Fat Boy" Kim needs lot of cheese to make his belly bigger.

The reality is that ICBM are only targeted at a few country to tell them "don't **** with us" and that is roughly China, and the US.

No country on the earth is already safe if they can make normal nuke, but that train already left the station long ago then : If you think he is mad enough to sell it, and he has it, then there is no need for ICBM. Just send it by transport ship in a container. And detonate it in a port would be devastating enough for any country economy including the US. As for SK, they would not need an ICBM for delivery.

So yes, I reiterate : no, it does not concern anybody than the US, because they are the only one posturing with NK at the moment.

 

[Ziggurat]

If you think he is mad enough to sell it, and he has it, then there is no need for ICBM. Just send it by transport ship in a container.

That doesn't make any sense.

The reason you want an ICBM with a nuclear missile and not just a container ship is that you can only use a container ship nuke as a first strike, but you can use an ICBM as a retaliatory strike. Countries like Iran are not interested in nuclear first-strike capabilities. They can't win nuclear wars. That's not the point.

The point is to have retaliatory capabilities, so that other countries won't attack them. This lets them ratchet up their trouble-making behavior by an order of magnitude. Iran can sponsor lots and lots and lots of international terrorism without worrying about us toppling them in response, because we will endure that terrorism rather than the results of nuclear war.

So what would happen if North Korea sold an ICBM-launched nuclear weapon to Iran? What would we do in response? Would we attack North Korea? Probably not.

The idea of Kim selling nukes to another rogue state is hardly far-fetched. There are some reasons he might not (for example, we might interdict the weapon during shipment), but the possibility can't be simply discounted.

 

[Beerina]

I think there are rocket scientists in North Korea whose job security is now in jeopardy and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Kim is of the "Find me a scientist to build my weapons and threaten to kill him if he doesn't" school of supervillainy.

 

[mgidm86]

Makes another mockery of all that 'clear and present danger' we are constantly told North Korea represent.

They have detonated nukes and are working on an ICBM. The US made a lot of mistakes too during development. Eventually we got it right. NK are the most annoying sabre-rattlers around, but they may actually be nearing a point where they can strike us or others.

I'm more sickened thinking of the plight of the people of NK though rather than whatever missile Kim has developed. It's a concern, but those poor people have been suffering for a very long time.

 

[smartcooky]

They have detonated nukes and are working on an ICBM. The US made a lot of mistakes too during development. Eventually we got it right. NK are the most annoying sabre-rattlers around, but they may actually be nearing a point where they can strike us or others.

And Fatboy Kim is about insane enough to do it just because he can.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

So yes, I reiterate : no, it does not concern anybody than the US, because they are the only one posturing with NK at the moment.

That's an interesting conclusion and I'm not disputing it, but I do wonder if the US-centric news we get in this country doesn't give a false impression.

I would think Japan and South Korea are concerned.

I'd be curious what our non-USA members of the forum are hearing in their local news.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And Fatboy Kim is about insane enough to do it just because he can.

Or because he insanely believes his country would win in a war with the US. I know that seems impossible from reality's POV. But this man grew up in a country with nearly complete information control. He is claimed to be a god, literally. He might just believe it.

 

[Ziggurat]

Or because he insanely believes his country would win in a war with the US. I know that seems impossible from reality's POV. But this man grew up in a country with nearly complete information control. He is claimed to be a god, literally. He might just believe it.

Kim Jong-Un was educated in Switzerland. He has had far more access to the outside world than most North Koreans. I doubt that he thinks that North Korea is actually more powerful than the United States.

That doesn't preclude him making other mistakes, such as believing that we don't have the willingness to stand up to him and thinking he can get away with more than we will actually tolerate. But he probably knows well enough the basic power disparity.

 

[Aepervius]

That doesn't make any sense.

Read again what redheat wrote and I answered to , to respond in context.

"I really feel sorry for those in other Countries who don't understand the significance of this issue. If the Norks develop an ICBM that is capable of transporting a small enough Nuke, no Country on the face of the earth is safe."

If it is an ICBM "to be sold" it make no sense as you would need the launch the capabilities, the set up, and you would still be targeted for reprisal. As such it makes *no sense* to fear the sale of an ICBM to terrorist and similar for "all" countries. And as such ICBM can only be meant to be developed as a counter measure against country which may target the holder. In other word MAD and in other word country to the claim of redheat , it does not concern "all" countries, just the one more likely to do a first strike agaisnt NK or the country they sell to. And that hold for Iran as well as NK.

And if it is to be sold as first strike, or terrorism, then it is far easier to only sell the nuke, plug it in a container ship, and let it rip and it can be done *today* if they have the capabilities of doing static bombs. Therefore the ICBM capabilities add *nothing* to the possible fear of third party countries.

That is the argument I was answering to.

 

[Aepervius]

Kim Jong-Un was educated in Switzerland. He has had far more access to the outside world than most North Koreans. I doubt that he thinks that North Korea is actually more powerful than the United States.

That doesn't preclude him making other mistakes, such as believing that we don't have the willingness to stand up to him and thinking he can get away with more than we will actually tolerate. But he probably knows well enough the basic power disparity.

I don't think he is making a mistake. If somebody tries to bully you, whether you like it or not it is their perspective, then it makes a lot of sense to tell them "you may hurt me, but you will be hurt too".

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't think he is making a mistake.

I didn't say he has made one yet. The biggest danger is that he might in the future. Nuclear war won't be triggered because Kim thinks he can beat us, but that doesn't mean it can't get triggered.

 

[Ziggurat]

In other word MAD and in other word country to the claim of redheat , it does not concern "all" countries, just the one more likely to do a first strike agaisnt NK or the country they sell to.

Again, no. This is wrong. This concerns any country interested in having the capability to retaliate against North Korea (or their customers). ICBM's are valuable primarily as retaliatory weapons, but they allow a country which has them to use non-nuclear aggression without fear of being destroyed in return. And such aggression could be directed against a lot of countries besides the US. Hell, it already has been.

Therefore the ICBM capabilities add *nothing* to the possible fear of third party countries.

This simply isn't true. It isn't just being nuked that countries have to worry about.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Anyone who thinks Kim Jong Un is rational because he was educated outside the country should read Without You There Is No Us

based on undercover investigative reporting to convey the psychology of North Korea's future leaders and their very complex and human and inhumane world. Neither a straightforward reporter's nonfiction nor a memoir about a woman's self-discovery, Without You, There Is No Us is a tour de force journalistic feat delivered in a narrative literary voice from within the world's most brutal gulag nation. ...

A haunting account of teaching English to the sons of North Korea's ruling class during the last six months of Kim Jong-il's reign

At least read the book review in Goodreads.

Every day, three times a day, the students march in two straight lines, singing praises to Kim Jong-il and North Korea: Without you, there is no motherland. Without you, there is no us. It is a chilling scene, but gradually Suki Kim, too, learns the tune and, without noticing, begins to hum it.

Author interview on NPR

I don't know how they absolutely keep that control. But we just saw, you know, [current leader] Kim Jung Un getting his uncle executed, Jang Song Thaek, at the end of 2013. And that is [the] No. 2 man in North Korea for decades, who is a relative of the Great Leader.

I think it's just a different system. I had assumed, also, that maybe the elite — you know, maybe the images that those people control — that they have so much freedom, but that just simply was not true.

There's more on The author's book page.

You have to have a glimpse of what that country is like and you can get it from the book. You simply cannot compare their culture to any other. It's complete totalitarianism that you could only otherwise find in a dystopian novel.

And in the center of it all, Kim Jong Un is a god. He's been told that his whole life. He's been told that his grandfather and his father were also gods. Not just great leaders, but literally gods.

 

[casebro]

I guess Asian gods are not eternal.

Neither is Un.

 

[Nosi]

Makes another mockery of all that 'clear and present danger' we are constantly told North Korea represent.

From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid. That's nothing to sneeze at.

This Korea stuff does offer distraction to all the White House incompetence stories flying about. Is Trump wagging the dog?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I guess Asian gods are not eternal.

Neither is Un.

Not relevant. You aren't putting yourself in Un's shoes. You think he must think like you do at least to some extent. That isn't likely to be true.

Tell me this, are you sure Trump won't do something stupid?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid. That's nothing to sneeze at. ...

I'm skeptical of that claim. Got any sources for it?

 

[Mike!]

From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid. That's nothing to sneeze at.

This Korea stuff does offer distraction to all the White House incompetence stories flying about. Is Trump wagging the dog?

Surely if such things existed we'd have already blasted them out of the sky.

 

[Reheat]

From what I understand N Korea has two satellites flying in an orbit over the USA that can give off an EMP Pulse. Those can destroy our electrical grid. That's nothing to sneeze at.

This Korea stuff does offer distraction to all the White House incompetence stories flying about. Is Trump wagging the dog?

Watching too much you tube crap will make you go blind if not stupid. Please explain the following to this Forum if you really believe this ****.

They can't reduce a nuke to a small enough size to put on an ICBM now, how could they do it when the launched those satellites (if they in fact did launch a satellite)? If it's non-nuclear what is their power source? It takes an enormous amount of power to produce enough EMP to cause what that jerk on you tube alleges. What he's doing is fear mongering. He has other videos there that are similar.