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Disgraceful! Richard Spencer Sucker-Punched While Giving Interview

SatansMaleVoiceChoir said:
Well, I'm not sure anyone was actually suggesting that, so no. But "is it likely to be a harbinger of the downfall of society? No...", is hardly an excuse for it either.
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I can swear I heard that as an excuse for voting for Donald Trump.

Might have been presumtious.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Please stop with the edgefest. Seriously, it does you no favours. Northern Ireland decided to go down your "Punch people you don't like!"* route. It didn't stop with "punching" as it became stabbings, shootings, car bombings. And it ultimately led to this: a farce of a government, where torture is "community justice", and we're going to be living with this for a very long time to come. Do you actually believe that only actual fascists will be the targets of righteous force? No, this is the sort of thing that happens when you say "Violence is an acceptable first resort against people you don't like!":
[qimg]http://cdn-01.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/article30712723.ece/f0d79/AUTOCROP/h342/2014-11-03_new_4377123_I3.JPG[/qimg]

And it could very well be you as a target for violence.

*Seriously: Unionists believed that the IRA were genocidal, and IRA likewise.
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I have absolutely no idea about the developments in NI.
In my mind, the peace process had finally taken hold and things were improving.

Where can I best read up about this?
 
SatansMaleVoiceChoir said:
Well, I'm not sure anyone was actually suggesting that, so no. But "is it likely to be a harbinger of the downfall of society? No...", is hardly an excuse for it either.
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Seemed to be the suggestion of a few posters in this thread - that the slippery slope of not condemning the face-punching of a nazi sufficiently enough would lead to broad societal violence and maybe civil war (like the Irish experience). I would be happy to hear them walking us back from the Edge of the Abyss if I was mistaken!
 
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Eddie Dane said:
I have absolutely no idea about the developments in NI.
In my mind, the peace process had finally taken hold and things were improving.

Where can I best read up about this?
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Brexit and RHI have kinda been a one-two punch for the Peace Process

Praktik said:
Seemed to be the suggestion of a few posters in this thread - that the slippery slope of not condemning the face-punching of a nazi sufficiently enough would lead to broad societal violence and maybe civil war (like the Irish experience). I would be happy to hear them walking us back from the Edge of the Abyss if I was mistaken!
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Except, history has shown that normalising politically motivated violence has never led to good places.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Except, history has shown that normalising politically motivated violence has never led to good places.
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Still feels like an arbitrary place to draw the line that lets you make this claim.

How many thousands of people were punched last year? How many acts of violence had some political motivation behind them?

Seems to me the rule of law, with infrequent and notable exceptions in some times and places for short periods, is holding up quite well under this onslaught.

I really think the idea that not condemning the punching of Richard Spencer strongly enough will lead directly to societal implosion is, well, somewhat hysterical.

Could it?

Maybe. But a lot of things could happen

Monkeys, for example, might fly outta my butt!
 
Rare Truth said:
Spencer was just kicked out of CPAC
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Trolling is guerrilla marketing for fringe movements.

Either he gets to tweet from inside the conference, or he gets removed. Both get him clicks. Probably more exposure from being removed, though.

Almost as good as getting punched. PR wise.
 
Praktik said:
Still feels like an arbitrary place to draw the line that lets you make this claim. How many thousands of people were punched last year? How many acts of violence had some political motivation behind them?

Seems to me the rule of law, with infrequent and notable exceptions in some times and places for short periods, is holding up quite well under this onslaught.

I really think the idea that not condemning the punching of Richard Spencer strongly enough will lead directly to societal implosion is, well, somewhat hysterical.

Could it?

Maybe. But a lot of things could happen

Monkeys, for example, might fly outta my butt!
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The highlighted part is the point. Any other point would be arbitrary. Taking NWO Sentryman's example (because it is the clearest example).

Is one punch OK? How about a punch which accidentally kills someone due to an underlying medical condition? How about several punches? How about punishment beatings? Or kneecappings?

Who is a valid target? Nazis? Communists? Klansmen? Islamic fundamentalists? Christian Fundamentalists? Anti Immigration campaigners?

The only non-arbitrary position is that violence is not a valid response to someone who is neither intimidating someone nor inciting violence.
 
Rare Truth said:
Spencer was just kicked out of CPAC
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Evidently he was giving an impromptu "press conference" in the hallway defending the alt-right, immediately after Dan Schneider (the director of the ACU) gave a speech declaring that the alt-right was a*left-wing*false-flag operation to discredit conservatives.
 
jimbob said:
The only non-arbitrary position is that violence is not a valid response to someone who is neither intimidating someone nor inciting violence.
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Thats not what I was arguing with - i was arguing instead with the proposition that the punching of Richard Spencer was a paving stone on the road to hell.

I would think we would need some trend analysis and broader perspective to be able to make this claim.

One could completely agree with the statement of your post I quoted here, yet still disagree that this is a Big Deal and a Critical Turning Point as we unleash a hellscape of civil war and political violence as happened in Ireland during the Troubles.
 
Praktik said:
Thats not what I was arguing with - i was arguing instead with the proposition that the punching of Richard Spencer was a paving stone on the road to hell.

I would think we would need some trend analysis and broader perspective to be able to make this claim.

One could completely agree with the statement of your post I quoted here, yet still disagree that this is a Big Deal and a Critical Turning Point as we unleash a hellscape of civil war and political violence as happened in Ireland during the Troubles.
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I don't understand why me not vaccinating my child matters, it's just one child in not making anyone else not vaccinate their children.

I don't see how this could possibly lead to resurgence of childhood diseases, you are being hysterical.
 
sadhatter said:
I don't understand why me not vaccinating my child matters, it's just one child in not making anyone else not vaccinate their children.

I don't see how this could possibly lead to resurgence of childhood diseases, you are being hysterical.
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Trend analysis helps there - are there more and more parents doing so, like say in Orange County?

Then you can make plausible claims about the road to hell. Vaccination rates are reported. One parent not vaccinating in a place that isn't Orange County may very well "not make a big difference". In Orange County, the cumulative effect of each incremental non-vaxer could be even more important.

Even so - if Orange County undervaccinates the incoming pockets of disease will likely cause some reversing of the course Into Hell. Measles outbreaks and the resulting coverage in the news and talk in the community will rollback the progress of anti-vaccination ideas.

So too with the dramatic implosion that could be set into motion by the punch of Richard Spencer. As people see the open license on punching from people like me not caring as much and more and more faces are punched - there could be countermoves in society from across society as people see the bitter fruit of the epidemic of Face Punching setting in. If its an isolated incident it may amount to a whole lot of nothing, in terms of societal impact (this is my position)

I agree that on a completely theoretical basis - the punching of Richard Spencer and people like me not being super upset about it - could lead to a Civil War Hellscape.

I just don't agree that this is a plausible or realistic scenario. I see no trend analysis that can place the punching of Richard Spencer into the position of being such an important Moment that we must now all join hands and work overtime to hold back an imminent wave of political violence. I see no one considering the general respect for rule of law in this society and how any wave of political violence will create reactions in society that may counteract it. There seems to be a thinking that society is so fragile that it could fall apart at any moment from one face-punch.
 
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