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Disgraceful! Richard Spencer Sucker-Punched While Giving Interview

uke2se said:
Nazi has a definition. How about we use that?

Violence against minorities is normalized when you allow people to call for ethnic cleansing without consequence.
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If you are using the dictionary definition all the people you can punch are long dead or no longer a threat. If you are saying you can punch neo-nazis then we are talking folks like spencer and a more nebulous definition.
 
uke2se said:
That's fine. I include Fascists when I say it's ok to punch Nazis. "Nazism" is a subset of "Fascism" after all.




What are you saying about my technical skills? Don't you think I'm as capable of blowing up a car as a Nazi is. That's a low blow, man.
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I would not say this about your parts normally but you are coming off very childish.

It's not just you though, I see this attitude a lot from folks on your side.

"Let's just throw out everything we know about politics and social construction because what I'm doing feels good. "

Your feelings are not important, actually getting things to an even keel and making progress is. Keep in mind you are talking to someone who is giving up a well paying job to go into social work because I feel the world is that ********** up. You are not helping, people like myself have to clean up the damage you attitudes and actions cause.

Your attitude isn't about society, it's about you, be self aware enough to realize this and change it and you can do some actual good.
 
sadhatter said:
I would not say this about your parts normally but you are coming off very childish.

It's not just you though, I see this attitude a lot from folks on your side.
"Let's just throw out everything we know about politics and social construction because what I'm doing feels good. " Your feelings are not important, actually getting things to an even keel and making progress is. Keep in mind you are talking to someone who is giving up a well paying job to go into social work because I feel the world is that ********** up. You are not helping, people like myself have to clean up the damage you attitudes and actions cause.

Your attitude isn't about society, it's about you, be self aware enough to realize this and change it and you can do some actual good.
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The highlighted parts are important in both these posts.

NWO Sentryman said:
Except there is no objective definition of "Nazi" and "Fascist", as even Orwell noted near the end of the Second World War, they became cheapened to ludicrous extents.
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Yes.


As far as I know, we are not discussing using violence in defence against violent thugs (where it is at least unrealistic to expect potential victims to avoid fighting back) but against someone saying hateful things.

I was going to say that the Battle Of Cable Street might have been one time where it did work, but that was against violent thugs. It seems to also be debatable whether it was counterproductive - although laws seemed to have worked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street#Aftermath


Regardless as to whether I think the politics espoused are hateful, as long as the speaker is not intimidating people or using violence, then violence is dangerous.


"The only way to preserve "the rule of law and free speech is vigilante action to stop the wrong people speaking"


That's a really bad idea
 
sadhatter said:
I would not say this about your parts normally but you are coming off very childish.

It's not just you though, I see this attitude a lot from folks on your side.

"Let's just throw out everything we know about politics and social construction because what I'm doing feels good. "

Your feelings are not important, actually getting things to an even keel and making progress is. Keep in mind you are talking to someone who is giving up a well paying job to go into social work because I feel the world is that ********** up. You are not helping, people like myself have to clean up the damage you attitudes and actions cause.

Your attitude isn't about society, it's about you, be self aware enough to realize this and change it and you can do some actual good.
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On the contrary, they are the only thing that is important. We're not living in the same world we did a few months ago. And yes, it's childish. It's also the reality we're faced with.
 
If you think it's okay to punch someone who's beliefs you consider morally repugnant, then you can't really complain when someone gets physically assaulted for being a Muslim or an Atheist or a Lefty or whatever else it may be. You can say they're wrong for finding such beliefs repugnant, but not that they're wrong for committing violence, given that they feel that way. Is that the sort of society people want to live in? One where violence against people for their beliefs/ideas/speech is considered acceptable or even celebrated? That isn't the sort of society I want to live in.
 
Meed said:
If you think it's okay to punch someone who's beliefs you consider morally repugnant, then you can't really complain when someone gets physically assaulted for being a Muslim or an Atheist or a Lefty or whatever else it may be. You can say they're wrong for finding such beliefs repugnant, but not that they're wrong for committing violence, given that they feel that way. Is that the sort of society people want to live in? One where violence against people for their beliefs/ideas/speech is considered acceptable or even celebrated? That isn't the sort of society I want to live in.
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Nor I, but it is the society we do live in.
 
Meed said:
If you think it's okay to punch someone who's beliefs you consider morally repugnant, then you can't really complain when someone gets physically assaulted for being a Muslim or an Atheist or a Lefty or whatever else it may be. You can say they're wrong for finding such beliefs repugnant, but not that they're wrong for committing violence, given that they feel that way. Is that the sort of society people want to live in? One where violence against people for their beliefs/ideas/speech is considered acceptable or even celebrated? That isn't the sort of society I want to live in.
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Hypocrisy isn't a problem for those who commit violence over verbal disagreements.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
So someone says "Fascists should be killed on sight!". How long before we get another Jo Cox, this time with the perpetrator accusing the victim of fascism?
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Yep nothing can be done until a full fledged genocide is underway and then afterwards we lie to ourselves about never again. On the plus side we have fully justified terrorist attacks on the US in this thread so there you go.

We kill people because we saw a tall guy and figured he must be Osama Bin Laden. Opps. Then there is all the torturing of the wrong people in a typo worthy of Brazil.

None of those are serious problems or crimes of course they were done by good americans and so must be OK.

But punching someone advocating genocide is right out.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Hypocrisy isn't a problem for those who commit violence over verbal disagreements.
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Yep there is nothing fundamentally wrong about advocating genocide, it is just one of those things. Like publishing the addresses of abortion doctors and other fun acts of free speech. Next people are going to say sending death threats is anything other than funny.
 
uke2se said:
On the contrary, they [feelings] are the only thing that is important. We're not living in the same world we did a few months ago. And yes, it's childish. It's also the reality we're faced with.
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This is a finely distilled version of the special snowflake argument. I'm worked up about something, and that's the only thing that matters, because I'm a special snowflake.

Mind you, I'm also worked up about the new reality we face.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yep there is nothing fundamentally wrong about advocating genocide, it is just one of those things. Like publishing the addresses of abortion doctors and other fun acts of free speech. Next people are going to say sending death threats is anything other than funny.
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I have said that intimidation shouldn't be protected, and accept that some intimidation might be of the dog whistle kind,, which might be missed by mainstream people.

I am very wary of betraying the principles of a free society in order to protect it.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yep nothing can be done until a full fledged genocide is underway and then afterwards we lie to ourselves about never again. On the plus side we have fully justified terrorist attacks on the US in this thread so there you go.

We kill people because we saw a tall guy and figured he must be Osama Bin Laden. Opps. Then there is all the torturing of the wrong people in a typo worthy of Brazil.

None of those are serious problems or crimes of course they were done by good americans and so must be OK.

But punching someone advocating genocide is right out.
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Please stop with the edgefest. Seriously, it does you no favours. Northern Ireland decided to go down your "Punch people you don't like!"* route. It didn't stop with "punching" as it became stabbings, shootings, car bombings. And it ultimately led to this: a farce of a government, where torture is "community justice", and we're going to be living with this for a very long time to come. Do you actually believe that only actual fascists will be the targets of righteous force? No, this is the sort of thing that happens when you say "Violence is an acceptable first resort against people you don't like!":
2014-11-03_new_4377123_I3.JPG


And it could very well be you as a target for violence.

*Seriously: Unionists believed that the IRA were genocidal, and IRA likewise.
 
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varwoche said:
This is a finely distilled version of the special snowflake argument. I'm worked up about something, and that's the only thing that matters, because I'm a special snowflake.

Mind you, I'm also worked up about the new reality we face.
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It is the only thing that matters, at least in politics. You may not have noticed, but facts don't really hold any sway anymore when it comes to people voting, or even to politicians making policy. What matters is what feels best. I feel better knowing that there are Nazi-punchers out there.
 
uke2se said:
It is the only thing that matters, at least in politics. You may not have noticed, but facts don't really hold any sway anymore when it comes to people voting, or even to politicians making policy. What matters is what feels best. I feel better knowing that there are Nazi-punchers out there.
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People are voting based on their feelings, so that makes it OK to punch people.

Yeah, that's not really how it works.

The devotion to free speech of a lot of people here runs about as deep as a puddle.
 
Free speech - Not just for the people you agree with!


In addition to the abhorrence of punching someone just because you disagree with them, the assault of anyone simply weakens any arguments against the speaker - after all, they'd say, if you have to resort to violence, you've probably lost the argument. In addition, how on earth are we going to know who the unethical are if they aren't allowed to voice their abhorrent views?

I don't care who was punched, punching people in the street for any reason other than defence of self or others is simply unacceptable.
 
I'm a bit funny when it comes to things like this...

Did the guy deserve to be punched? Probably, yes.
Am I particularly sorry for him that he was punched? Not really - see above.
Is it right/lawful/should he have been punched? No. Violence isn't the answer.
 
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