ICE uses church hypothermia shelter as a suspect trap

[Reheat]

My parents-in-law were Mexican immigrants become US citizens. They lived in a US border town for 20 years or so, then moved to east San Jose (CA), which was a not-so-little Mexico, where they had lived for several years when I first met them. The mom didn't speak English. The dad spoke a little, but he avoided it like the plague. (I think he was embarassed.)

Having grown up and lived in places with significant hispanic population, this was commonplace.

I lived iin New Mexico for several years, so I am familiar with this situation. It's not legal residents or citizens I have a problem with, it's the illegals and virtually nothing has been done about it, particularly in the last 8 years. Now, we have sanctuary cities to protect criminals. Where is respect for the rule of law. It's gotten worse and worse and it's well past time to stop it.

We were all either immigrants of descendants thereof at some point in the past, but it needs to be controlled and it's needs to be legal.

If I sound angry, I am. I've probably over reacted, but I am pissed off and so are millions of others. I'm sure that's one of the primary reasons Trump was elected. If he doesn't do something about it, he will lose in 2020, unless the Democrats stupidly run another open borders advocate.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I partially agree with you, but on the other hand they frequently have Official looking Social Security Cards that are difficult to detect as fake. I can assure that most legitimate companies will not hire them, but some in obscure smaller companies will. We just recently had two not so small landscape companies near where I live that were put out of business for hiring illegals. However, if you've read the thread you'll notice a predominate support on supposedly humanitarian grounds. I hope they keep it up as they'll continue to lose elections, just like they have in the past. They are near totally out of any political power and are now lashing out without realizing why they have no political power either in Congress, the Presidency, or in States.

Ooooh, take pity on the special snowflakes who own businesses, then? This would seem like something that the government could take care of in a heartbeat and at about 1/300th of the cost of their imagined wall and draconian enforcement procedures. Why, I'll bet they could do this, like, five years ago. (Which they have done.)

You can't be serious with this sort of apologia.

"Tricky brown people! Those cards look like the real thing!" So what does the SSNV (Social Security Number Verification) system tell you? "Oh, I didn't check that. All I have to do is appear to be checking. Besides, the guy was willing to work for twenty bucks a day."

Further, who here, over the age of thirty, actually has their SS card? In my generation they were made of cardboard and mine was issued when I was 16 and lasted until a rainstorm drenched me to the bone about four years later. My son's card, issued in 2008, is also flimsy cardboard. They ain't ID.

 

[fuelair]

Ooooh, take pity on the special snowflakes who own businesses, then? This would seem like something that the government could take care of in a heartbeat and at about 1/300th of the cost of their imagined wall and draconian enforcement procedures. Why, I'll bet they could do this, like, five years ago. (Which they have done.)

You can't be serious with this sort of apologia.

"Tricky brown people! Those cards look like the real thing!" So what does the SSNV (Social Security Number Verification) system tell you? "Oh, I didn't check that. All I have to do is appear to be checking. Besides, the guy was willing to work for twenty bucks a day."

Further, who here, over the age of thirty, actually has their SS card? In my generation they were made of cardboard and mine was issued when I was 16 and lasted until a rainstorm drenched me to the bone about four years later. My son's card, issued in 2008, is also flimsy cardboard. They ain't ID.

In all fairness I have had the same one (unlaminated) for at least 50 years. It is a touch rough around the edges but all the print stuff is fine!!

 

[jakesteele]

I don't carry my birth certificate with me either, but I'm pretty sure ICE would accept any form of ID that would show you're in the US legally. Things such as a driver license would likely suffice. In addition, many states will issue an ID for a nominal fee or in some cases for free. That would suffice, as well. BTW, you don't need to be a US Citizen to get either of those. Only that you are a legal resident.

You can't get a bank account without an ID and a Social Security number. There really is no valid excuse for someone legally in the US.

In the state of Washington, as I was told by a cop, you have to have either a drivers license, state I.D. or a passport; anything with a picture.

 

[theprestige]

America has its own Gestapo. Cool.

I feel like if you really believed that were true, you'd either keep your mouth shut about it, or you'd be part of the underground resistance (and keep your mouth shut).

 

[Foolmewunz]

In the state of Washington, as I was told by a cop, you have to have either a drivers license, state I.D. or a passport; anything with a picture.

And will you be surprised when someone from WA comes along and tells you that the cop didn't know what he was talking about?

 

[ChristianProgressive]

In all fairness I have had the same one (unlaminated) for at least 50 years. It is a touch rough around the edges but all the print stuff is fine!!

I still have mine too.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I still have mine too.

You guys are quaint. They're of no use as long as you know your number.

 

[Reheat]

You guys are quaint. They're of no use as long as you know your number.

That is totally wrong. Many Companies want to see the actual card. If you don't have and you want the job you have to get a new one. ALL US based Airlines is one that requires them. I'm sure there are others.

 

[abaddon]

Your impression is wrong. You have to show proof of birth to obtain a Driver's License. There's more than one way to do that.

Legal residents will have a birth certificate from their country of origin, no? Or are you claiming that the US issues new birth certificates for legal immigrants somehow?

As I said below, they'll have a warm place to stay while they're being questioned.

That's cruel.

 

[Random]

Ok, I've read the article. Now tell me the following:

An undocumented illegal does not have a valid Social Security number, so how does anyone know that they pay income taxes or specifically how much?...

What usually happens is an undocumented worker shows up and applies for something like a dishwashing job with a fake SSN. The employer sets them up like a regular employee (indeed, they may not know anything is wrong), automatically deducts SSN and Medicare from their paycheck, and sends the money to the feds. The Social Security Administration gets a payment from the employer with an invalid SSN attached, and pockets the money. If the undocumented worker ever comes forward and tries to collect Social Security, they just say, "Sorry, not a valid SSN".

The key is that tracking down and prosecuting people who pay more in taxes than they are legally obligated to is not a high priority for the government.

 

[Foolmewunz]

That is totally wrong. Many Companies want to see the actual card. If you don't have and you want the job you have to get a new one. ALL US based Airlines is one that requires them. I'm sure there are others.

I'm 67. I've had jobs in dozens of US companies. They ask for your SS#. I don't know why an airline would be particularly different. You can verify the number in twenty seconds on the inter-webs.

Not surprisingly, SSA agrees with me.
https://www.ssa.gov/employer/SSNcard.htm

"Totally wrong?" I think not. You just extrapolate crap up from your limited experiences and assume that's the way it is.

 

[rwguinn]

I'm 67. I've had jobs in dozens of US companies. They ask for your SS#. I don't know why an airline would be particularly different. You can verify the number in twenty seconds on the inter-webs.

Not surprisingly, SSA agrees with me.
https://www.ssa.gov/employer/SSNcard.htm

"Totally wrong?" I think not. You just extrapolate crap up from your limited experiences and assume that's the way it is.

Lockheed Martin required the card. For a 55 year old engineer with a security clearance. As did Spirit, Vought, Motor Coach Industries, and even Toys R Us...

 

[Reheat]

Legal residents will have a birth certificate from their country of origin, no? Or are you claiming that the US issues new birth certificates for legal immigrants somehow?

Is this a trick question? Of course, the US Govt does not issue a new birth certificate. Usually, folks immigrating have a passport from their Country of origin. I don't know the answer in the case of refugees or in the case of a non-functioning Govt. That's why we need to be very careful.

That's cruel.

So, you think leaving them in the cold is better? You haven't offered any solution at all. I think everyone will listen to other reasonable suggestions other than just leaving them alone as if there's no problem.

 

[Reheat]

The key is that tracking down and prosecuting people who pay more in taxes than they are legally obligated to is not a high priority for the government.

I suspect this part may be true. How does anyone know if he invalid SS # is simply a mistake or if it belongs to an illegal? Do they even investigate to determine the identity of the SS # holder.

I still don't know how it can be determined how much in taxes are paid either income or property. I certainly don't believe property tax can be calculated unless one considers rent an indirect method of payment. I am very skeptical of the amounts that I've seen quoted with no explanation of how it's calculated.

ETA: Some companies pay their illegal employees in cash, so no SS or Medicare payments are collected at all. Seems to me the companies that do that would eventually be caught in a variety of ways, but I have no data on that... Again, I've seen numbers of contributions as high as 13 Billion, but I have no idea how that's being calculated. I suspect it's a bogus number...

 

[Foolmewunz]

Lockheed Martin required the card. For a 55 year old engineer with a security clearance. As did Spirit, Vought, Motor Coach Industries, and even Toys R Us...

Curious. Does anyone know why? I know some people what walk on the darker side of the law. Forgers will toss in an age-appropriate SS card if you're getting more difficult documents from them.

Are companies simply misreading the requirements of the I-9? I don't think states can change the requirements.... but I could be wrong.

 

[Reheat]

I'm 67. I've had jobs in dozens of US companies. They ask for your SS#. I don't know why an airline would be particularly different. You can verify the number in twenty seconds on the inter-webs.

Not surprisingly, SSA agrees with me.
https://www.ssa.gov/employer/SSNcard.htm

"Totally wrong?" I think not. You just extrapolate crap up from your limited experiences and assume that's the way it is.

My experience is just as valid as yours, thank-you. You link doesn't prove a damn thing except that SSA does not require an actual card. As I said some companies do and many also keep a copy of it in their files.

For the companies that do, you either produce a card or don't get the job. In essence you are still wrong. Nice try at bluffing tho'...

ETA: My grand daughter was asked for her card when she applied for a part-time job at Kroger's while in school. She had it and gave it to them to copy. I have no idea what they would have said if she refused. You can add this to the list of those above..

 

[bruto]

One of my kids was asked for a card when she applied for a job. Not sure why, nor why people demand that we produce for identification a card prominently marked with the warning that it is not to be used for identification. That it happens does not mean it always happens, nor that it's right. Nor does that mean it's something you need to carry all the time, or that it's legal and proper for a law officer to demand that you present it.

 

[Foolmewunz]

My experience is just as valid as yours, thank-you. You link doesn't prove a damn thing except that SSA does not require an actual card. As I said some companies do and many also keep a copy of it in their files.

For the companies that do, you either produce a card or don't get the job. In essence you are still wrong. Nice try at bluffing tho'...

ETA: My grand daughter was asked for her card when she applied for a part-time job at Kroger's while in school. She had it and gave it to them to copy. I have no idea what they would have said if she refused. You can add this to the list of those above..

It is NOT a requirement. Companies that ask for it are WRONG. And I'd be willing to bet that if you told them you don't have one and aren't required per the i-9 to provide one, they'd back off the request. And, if you said, "Oh, I have a copy of it from years ago, but I don't have the original", they'd probably say "Cool, bring that in."

<The plural of anecdote is not data.>

 

[Aepervius]

I don't carry my birth certificate with me either, but I'm pretty sure ICE would accept any form of ID that would show you're in the US legally.

It is a big hassle for some to get such id (in fact that was the point about voter id law : to add such hassle in the hope that the "wrong" people don't get to vote, and it has been documented as stated as such). So what make you think homeless which are already on the side of society can and will be able to afford it ? Also I am pretty sure you need a valid address in many case to get such id issued. And nominal fee, is still a fee. When you are homeless and use hypothermia shelter, chance as that *any* (what you see as nominal) fee is an insurmountable obstacle compered to get food.

I doubt you really understand what being homeless means. It nearly sound like the mythic "let them eat cake" : as remote from understanding the status of the person as one can be.