China and communist beliefs.

[BobTheCoward]

I bet I wouldn't. The fact that Mormonism is a stupid set of beliefs is not conditional on having been born anywhere and is obvious after even the most cursory glance.

But you would be more stupid being born under completely different circumstances. You wouldn't be you.

 

[imodium]

The title of the threads off, China isn't communist and never was, like Soviet Russia it used socialism with an overlay of totalitarianism, not exactly what Marx and Engels preached.
Blatant breach of the first rule, they have private companies, being a prime example.
A little like people who say they're christian but break commandments at will and never go to church, it's just a title being used.

 

[LSSBB]

But you would be more stupid being born under completely different circumstances. You wouldn't be you.

That depends. Look into research on nature vs. nurture.

 

[BobTheCoward]

That depends. Look into research on nature vs. nurture.

Wouldn't we assume different parents, also?

 

[BobTheCoward]

The title of the threads off, China isn't communist and never was, like Soviet Russia it used socialism with an overlay of totalitarianism, not exactly what Marx and Engels preached.
Blatant breach of the first rule, they have private companies, being a prime example.
A little like people who say they're christian but break commandments at will and never go to church, it's just a title being used.

Neither my title nor body is off. You will notice nothing I said was related to their government structure.

 

[Fudbucker]

Then why are there Mormons?

The same reason there are scientologists and anti-vaxxers: too many stupid people in the world.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I'm not sure she really believes pure communism is possible or desirable, but as I said it is ingrained, and she will reflexively defend it with the "more evolved humans" concept when she perceives it challenged. Like most people, she doesn't give much thought to politics or broad social issues except when they directly affect her or her family. I am aware that she thinks the sent-down youth system was horrible and sad, and that the current lack of freedom of movement is problematic (for those who don't know, for most people in China it is almost impossible to move to another city to work/live). I try not to engage with her in any discussions about China, as these topics are minefields, so what I know is through observation rather than probing.



My wife has been here for 18 years, was PhD-educated here, has been married to me for 16 years, and she still says "we" to mean "all Chinese people", as in "We don't think X" or "We like Y very much". My parents tease her with "What do you mean 'we'?" when they hear this. I suppose she means "all Han Chinese", but you get the point. The difference in individual vs collective thought and opinion between China and the West is striking.

Well, if you get a chance, could you ask her about how she perceives Chinese feelings about Mao's goals of stateless communism? I don't want to debate anybody, but hear people's stories.

 

[theprestige]

The same reason there are scientologists and anti-vaxxers: too many stupid people in the world.

But Mormonism works. As does Chinese communism.

 

[marplots]

I bet I wouldn't. The fact that Mormonism is a stupid set of beliefs is not conditional on having been born anywhere and is obvious after even the most cursory glance.

Then why are there Mormons?

The same reason there are scientologists and anti-vaxxers: too many stupid people in the world.

This is a very tidy explanation. The reason there are Mormons, scientologists and anti-vaxxers is because of stupidity. Because the stupidity of all those beliefs should be "obvious after even the most cursory glance."

 

[angrysoba]

I used to teach a couple of Chinese students. One of them told me that Zhou Enlai was better than Mao.

 

[Fudbucker]

This is a very tidy explanation. The reason there are Mormons, scientologists and anti-vaxxers is because of stupidity. Because the stupidity of all those beliefs should be "obvious after even the most cursory glance."

Are you disputing this? Is it your opinion that scientology/mormonism/christian science/Islam, etc. stand up to any kind of scrutiny?

 

[marplots]

Are you disputing this? Is it your opinion that scientology/mormonism/christian science/Islam, etc. stand up to any kind of scrutiny?

Pick one. Is it going to be scrutiny or cursory glance?

 

[Fudbucker]

Pick one. Is it going to be scrutiny or cursory glance?

I said "any kind of scrutiny", actually. But yes, they are all prima facie ridiculous. Since I know you don't believe in Xenu, Golden plates, imminent armageddon or any other such nonsense, do you have a point to make? If you're just going to nitpick between things "any kind scrutiny" and "cursory glance", have at it, but don't expect any further responses from me. If you want to talk about why there are so many people who believe such obviously stupid things, that's another discussion altogether.

 

[Darth Rotor]

MRC Hans has answered the question.

/thread

 

[marplots]

I said "any kind of scrutiny", actually. But yes, they are all prima facie ridiculous. Since I know you don't believe in Xenu, Golden plates, imminent armageddon or any other such nonsense, do you have a point to make? If you're just going to nitpick between things "any kind scrutiny" and "cursory glance", have at it, but don't expect any further responses from me. If you want to talk about why there are so many people who believe such obviously stupid things, that's another discussion altogether.

We should all strive to disbelieve obviously stupid things.

 

[mumblethrax]

The impression I get from talking to PRC nationals is that they think he was a great man who should have been stopped.

 

[Tormac]

Hi Bob,

I am a USAsian, not a Chinese, but I am familiar with China for an American
(I have been to China as a tourist, college student, and ended up marring a Chinese woman, and so now spend a lot of time there with family). I am also of a Libertarian bent.

Modern China is this crazy-complex country with many differing points of view. While its government claims to be communist, at the street level China feels hyper-capitalist, with a bit of old boy corruption sprinkled on top. I know many Chinese people who sound like right leaning libertarians. Do not assume that the Chinese people are all Far-left Maoists. There are some that are far left Communists, some that are moderate Communists, some that joined the communist party because they had to join to get ahead with their career, some are anti-communist, and many that don’t care about politics at all, but just want to go on with their lives, make a buck and pay the bills.

My Mother-in-law as a case in point often sounds very much like a libertarian leaning right wing Republican. She loves China and is very patriotic about her country (she feels no hesitation to complain to me about the USA’s meddling in the China Sea pacific island thing, and was livid when Trump started calling Tsai lng-wen). At the same time, her family used to be landowners who had their land taken away by the communists, and she is quick to complain about how the government took their family land, about how the government does not care about the everyday person, and is either corrupt or incompetent.

Many Chinese people I know thought that Trump was the better candidate, and are mad about what happened to Bernie and the DNC (I have found that the Chinese people are much better informed about our politics than we are of their politics, and in general they know much more about what is happening in the USA and we do about what is happening in China. I hate to say that their news media is better than ours, but well, I think that their state run news media is not any worse than our oligarchic news media.)

If you were born in China Bob, you are as likely to be libertarian in your beliefs as if you were born in the USA. There are as many points of political view in China as there are in the USA.

 

[CapelDodger]

Nature versus nurture. I think my nature is extremism. I think environment is the primary shaper of what I would aim that extremism at.

FWIW, that's what I took you to mean. Not just a Cathoic but a Jesuit, so to speak.

Maoism was not the orthodoxy in your formative years : you would, in fact, be getting rich or richer.

I would think the party would provide a timeline because they exist only as an intermediate step.

We all want to get to Heaven but we're not rushing.

 

[CapelDodger]

Ah, but sooner or later people that are fairly well off materially will start to demand more individual freedom. That is when the crisis will come for China.

When people are fairly well-off they opt for stasis, not change. It's when the prosperous start feeling less prosperous that they demand change.

 

[CapelDodger]

Then why are there Mormons?

God knows.