China and communist beliefs.

[BobTheCoward]

This is a weird topic. I am an extreme libertarian. But I realize under certain circumstances my life would be completely different. I'm the type of person that if I was born I china, I would be a 33 year old hardcore Maoist.

But what would life be like for me? What do regular Chinese folk think of Maoism today? Does the party engage in any effort to square with the tenants of communism? Do they give a timeframe on when they will achieve the withering away of the state?

 

[angrysoba]

This is a weird topic. I am an extreme libertarian. But I realize under certain circumstances my life would be completely different. I'm the type of person that if I was born I china, I would be a 33 year old hardcore Maoist.

But what would life be like for me? What do regular Chinese folk think of Maoism today? Does the party engage in any effort to square with the tenants of communism? Do they give a timeframe on when they will achieve the withering away of the state?

Mao is on the banknotes.

He was 70% correct, and 30% wrong.

 

[MRC_Hans]

This is a weird topic. I am an extreme libertarian. But I realize under certain circumstances my life would be completely different. I'm the type of person that if I was born I china, I would be a 33 year old hardcore Maoist.

You are an extreme libertarian, but think in China you would be a maoist? This makes no sense. There must be (at least) one of those ideologies that you don't understand.

But what would life be like for me? What do regular Chinese folk think of Maoism today?

They generally (and rightly) think it was a necessary, if expensive, path from backwards feudalism to modern industrial superpower.

And on Mao, they think he did more good than bad, but feel quite comfortable with his present position: Mausoleum and banknotes.

Does the party engage in any effort to square with the tenants of communism?

Ehr? The party IS communist. In spite of the somewhat capitalist methods, the basic structure is communist.

For modern China, communism is the ideology, capitalism is a tool.

Do they give a timeframe on when they will achieve the withering away of the state?

Why would they do that?

Hans

 

[BobTheCoward]

You are an extreme libertarian, but think in China you would be a maoist? This makes no sense. There must be (at least) one of those ideologies that you don't understand.



Why would the do that?

Hans

Nature versus nurture. I think my nature is extremism. I think environment is the primary shaper of what I would aim that extremism at.


I would think the party would provide a timeline because they exist only as an intermediate step.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Nature versus nurture. I think my nature is extremism. I think environment is the primary shaper of what I would aim that extremism at.

Ah. Opposition as pure principle?

I would think the party would provide a timeline because they exist only as an intermediate step.

What makes you think they consider themselves an intermediate step?

Suggestion: Read a bit about modern China.

Hans

 

[BobTheCoward]

Ah. Opposition as pure principle?



What makes you think they consider themselves an intermediate step?

Suggestion: Read a bit about modern China.

Hans

I'm asking about how modern China makes people feel and how they square it with their history.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I'm asking about how modern China makes people feel and how they square it with their history.

I think modern China makes people feel reasonably well. During the last few generations, they feel they have gone tremendously forward on nearly all accounts. Even human rights. All that, obviously, because they have come from a fairly bleak position.

Hans

 

[dudalb]

Ah, but sooner or later people that are fairly well off materially will start to demand more individual freedom. That is when the crisis will come for China.

 

[Modified]

Ah, but sooner or later people that are fairly well off materially will start to demand more individual freedom. That is when the crisis will come for China.

They're starting to demand less pollution, which is a nice tangible target.

 

[Modified]

What makes you think they consider themselves an intermediate step?

I'm asking about how modern China makes people feel and how they square it with their history.

My (Chinese) wife expresses that true communism is something that is achievable only after humans themselves "improve" (through genetic and/or social evolution). I get the impression that these ideas were taught/ingrained.

 

[BobTheCoward]

My (Chinese) wife expresses that true communism is something that is achievable only after humans themselves "improve" (through genetic and/or social evolution). I get the impression that these ideas were taught/ingrained.

Thank you for being the first to actually answer my question.

So many questions. Does she think Mao or the party are vehicles to that end?

 

[Fudbucker]

This is a weird topic. I am an extreme libertarian. But I realize under certain circumstances my life would be completely different. I'm the type of person that if I was born I china, I would be a 33 year old hardcore Maoist.

But what would life be like for me? What do regular Chinese folk think of Maoism today? Does the party engage in any effort to square with the tenants of communism? Do they give a timeframe on when they will achieve the withering away of the state?

Why would you be a Maoist? If I was born in Utah, there's no way I would be a Mormon.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Why would you be a Maoist? If I was born in Utah, there's no way I would be a Mormon.

I bet you would.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Thank you for being the first to actually answer my question.

So many questions. Does she think Mao or the party are vehicles to that end?

Look, if you actually want to understand China:

China is 3,500 years of history and culture, 1,4 (give or take) billion people, a land area roughly the size of the North Americas, and roughly 20 ethnic groups.

Anything about China smaller than a whole book will be a gross simplification.

Hans
Over and out.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Look, if you actually want to understand China:

China is 3,500 years of history and culture, 1,4 (give or take) billion people, a land area roughly the size of the North Americas, and roughly 20 ethnic groups.

Anything about China smaller than a whole book will be a gross simplification.

Hans
Over and out.

Do you serve a function here other than to judge what I do or do not think makes a good thread? Here is an easier thing, if you have nothing to contribute simply don't post here.

 

[novaphile]

I've known, worked with, and socialised with quite a few people from mainland China.

From what I can tell, for many people, the Communist take-over massively improved their lives.

For example, one friend explained how his family were given an apartment.

One room, in a high-rise, with a cold tap and a power-point.

He explained that that was an unbelievable level of luxury, and safety, compared to what they had before.

Of course this has to be compared with the horrendous treatment of the rich and academics...

... and political enemies.

 

[Modified]

So many questions. Does she think Mao or the party are vehicles to that end?

I'm not sure she really believes pure communism is possible or desirable, but as I said it is ingrained, and she will reflexively defend it with the "more evolved humans" concept when she perceives it challenged. Like most people, she doesn't give much thought to politics or broad social issues except when they directly affect her or her family. I am aware that she thinks the sent-down youth system was horrible and sad, and that the current lack of freedom of movement is problematic (for those who don't know, for most people in China it is almost impossible to move to another city to work/live). I try not to engage with her in any discussions about China, as these topics are minefields, so what I know is through observation rather than probing.

China is 3,500 years of history and culture, 1,4 (give or take) billion people, a land area roughly the size of the North Americas, and roughly 20 ethnic groups.

My wife has been here for 18 years, was PhD-educated here, has been married to me for 16 years, and she still says "we" to mean "all Chinese people", as in "We don't think X" or "We like Y very much". My parents tease her with "What do you mean 'we'?" when they hear this. I suppose she means "all Han Chinese", but you get the point. The difference in individual vs collective thought and opinion between China and the West is striking.

 

[Fudbucker]

I bet you would.

I bet I wouldn't. The fact that Mormonism is a stupid set of beliefs is not conditional on having been born anywhere and is obvious after even the most cursory glance.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Do you serve a function here other than to judge what I do or do not think makes a good thread? Here is an easier thing, if you have nothing to contribute simply don't post here.

All I am saying is that personally, I find it a waste of time to discuss China in one-line statements. What you do, is your own choice

Hans

 

[marplots]

I bet I wouldn't. The fact that Mormonism is a stupid set of beliefs is not conditional on having been born anywhere and is obvious after even the most cursory glance.

Then why are there Mormons?