Disgraceful! Richard Spencer Sucker-Punched While Giving Interview

Lorentz said:
Please forgive me if I wasn't sure if I should take "Nazi" that literally. It's a rather commonly abused term.
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In Spencer's case, I definitely mean it absolutely literally (that's why I emphasized his literal sieg-heiling, captured on video, above).
 
Lorentz said:
I think that's a silly outdated law, because there's no chance of antisemitism arising in this country.
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Not that I think Mein Kampf should be banned (except for its crimes against prose, comparable in magnitude to the other crimes of Hitler's), but this has a certain "famous last words" ring to it.
 
Lorentz said:
I may not have expressed myself clearly enough before. I do not object to you laughing. For me a line is crossed when violence against him is - tacitly or overtly - encouraged. I'm unsure if you meant to do that or not.
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Nope, that's fine.

I'll protect my family, though, no matter what.

You can do as you wish...

ETA: I'll be the bad guy here...
 
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TubbaBlubba said:
Not that I think Mein Kampf should be banned (except for its crimes against prose, comparable in magnitude to the other crimes of Hitler's), but this has a certain "famous last words" ring to it.
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I'm only 1/32nd part jew, not Roma, not gay. So I think I'd have time to regret my words before the end. :D
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Not that I think Mein Kampf should be banned (except for its crimes against prose, comparable in magnitude to the other crimes of Hitler's), but this has a certain "famous last words" ring to it.
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You're right, Mein Kampf is terrible writing.
 
Violence, at least in this context, is a kind of communication. It has a satisfying clarity about it, a feeling of resolution, a thing once said that cannot be unsaid.
 
marplots said:
Violence, at least in this context, is a kind of communication. It has a satisfying clarity about it, a feeling of resolution, a thing once said that cannot be unsaid.
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Agreed. How about this for an even shorter description: "The act sent the unequivocal message: NO!"
 
There are people who earnestly believe that abortion is murder, full stop. I think we even have one or two as members on this site. To them, by advocating for a woman's right to choose you [the generic you] are not only advocating for widespread murder of the defenseless, you're also advocating for it to be legal and accepted by society. And there's also a good chance you want taxpayer money to help fund the murder factories.

Is the above pro-lifer now justified in punching you if you meet at a protest?

And for the record I've never punched a pro-lifer myself, though I did come very close to getting punched by one when we didn't quite see eye to eye on the issue.
 
Jules Galen said:
Thanks. I've read it before and it's the first thing (i.e., that article) that pops into my mind when I become disgusted at the word "Anarchism". For as much as I like Chomsky - and he's my favorite intellectual - he got sloppy on this one.

Hey...even the great Noam Chomsky misses a bit sometimes.
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Chomsky has been blisteringly wrong many times. He has a stiff geo/political agenda, and that kind of thing can interfere with "telling truth to power".
 
Joe Random said:
There are people who earnestly believe that abortion is murder, full stop. I think we even have one or two as members on this site. To them, by advocating for a woman's right to choose you [the generic you] are not only advocating for widespread murder of the defenseless, you're also advocating for it to be legal and accepted by society. And there's also a good chance you want taxpayer money to help fund the murder factories.

Is the above pro-lifer now justified in punching you if you meet at a protest?

And for the record I've never punched a pro-lifer myself, though I did come very close to getting punched by one when we didn't quite see eye to eye on the issue.
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Might there be an exception for those who preach hate, as a neo-Nazi does? Pro-choice people generally are not hateful, nor do they violently condemn those who disagree, or wish to legally segregate each other. I think the special brand of vile from a neo-Nazi makes some of us allow the exception.

ETA: Also, having endorsed such a hateful position, they have abandoned reasonable discussion. Kind of leaves violence as the last way of conveying the depth of disagreement
 
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A'isha said:
In Spencer's case, I definitely mean it absolutely literally (that's why I emphasized his literal sieg-heiling, captured on video, above).
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Yep.

I hate people like him, because he hates us. I still dislike violence, but...I will protect my family, at all costs.
 
Jules Galen said:
Mumbles,

Who is the statue represent in your icon?

Thanks.

Jules
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It's a particularly terrifying-looking fiberglass statue of Confederate General (and KKK founder) Nathan Bedford Forrest, off I-65 in Tennessee, erected by the lawyer who defended James Earl Ray, the murderer of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. I've driven by that thing many times, and it creeps the hell out of me.
 
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MostlyDead said:
Might there be an exception for those who preach hate, as a neo-Nazi does? Pro-choice people generally are not hateful, nor do they violently condemn those who disagree, or wish to legally segregate each other. I think the special brand of vile from a neo-Nazi makes some of us allow the exception.
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You didn't run across the pro-lifers that I did then. Granted, they weren't quite as hateful as Nazis (for the record : **** Nazis, neo- or otherwise, lest anyone think I'm defending them). But the rhetoric and actions by the pro-lifers I used to come into regular contact with about 15 years ago was not at all the weepy, 'think of the children!' sort of passive protest you might be thinking of. Hateful vitriol and intimidation were very much in play, which is precisely what lead to my 'almost punched' moment when my passion got the better of my reason, and I engaged the ******** on their own terms.

ETA: Also, having endorsed such a hateful position, they have abandoned reasonable discussion. Kind of leaves violence as the last way of conveying the depth of disagreement
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But to what end? As I've said in other topics, you won't be able to convince a Stormfronter with reason. They will be impervious to any facts or rationality you throw at them - take that as a given. So then what is the point of 'conveying disagreement?'. Honest question here. I was married to a Jew for a while. To many of these people I've earned my place on the hanging tree as a race traitor. If I reach the point where reason doesn't get through to them, is it at all likely that they still need to be shown that I disagree with their world view?

The entire reason there would be friction and conflict would be because I reject their twisted ideology. Would that not be clear to them if I stop short of a punch? "Oh, I didn't realize the Jew-lover who wants to help gays get married disagreed with me until he curled his hand into a fist".

If you want to say it's a matter of self-satisfaction, of not letting the bastards get away clean, then I'd understand. I'd still disagree at a moral level, but I could at least see the thought process which lead to it. But to say "They won't understand that I reject their ideology if I don't hit them" - I can't honestly say I get that PoV.

Mind you, this is all talking about responses to speech which falls short of immediate and credible threats/incitements. Once we move into "Hannah round the corner is baking a challah - let's go spin burnouts on her lawn." it's a totally different dynamic.
 
A'isha said:
It's a particularly terrifying-looking fiberglass statue of Confederate General (and KKK founder) Nathan Bedford Forrest, off I-65 in Tennessee, erected by the lawyer who defended James Earl Ray, the murderer of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. I've driven by that thing many times, and it creeps the hell out of me.
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Yeah, he's a horrible guy. I made that awful statue my avatar as a joke. But I'm rethinking it...

ETA I'm not so fond of MLK encased in carbonite, either...
 
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