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Merged Dakota Access Pipeline

Just so that we hear some feedback from actual landowners, here's an article from The Guardian that speaks to a rep from NoDak Landowners. I know they may not have the same education or knowledge as marplots, but I do trust landowners to know what is or isn't good for their land. They seem to disagree on how much damage even a barrel of oil can do to their farmland.
 
plague311 said:
Sure, let me know what you come up with. I'll wait patiently.
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There's a part of town near where I grew up that is so contaminated with spilled diesel fuel from an old Navy fuel depository that even over 20 years after the depository was decommissioned, it's still not safe to grow food in; and the county issues warnings to anyone who moves there not to do so.

When I still lived there, you could dig down about a foot, wait 10 minutes, and light the seeped fuel on fire.
 
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luchog said:
There's a part of town near where I grew up that is so contaminated with spilled diesel fuel from an old Navy fuel depository that even over 20 years after the depository was decommissioned, it's still not safe to grow food in; and the county issues warnings to anyone who moves there not to do so.

When I still lived there, you could dig down about a foot, wait 10 minutes, and light the seeped fuel on fire.
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NoDak has suffered some pretty big environmental hits from this oil boom that we've had, and because of our awesome GOP leadership, we now have absolutely nothing to show for it. Hence why they're so eager to approve these pipelines. It's the only way to bring in a little bit more money so they don't look like complete failures.
 
plague311 said:
NoDak has suffered some pretty big environmental hits from this oil boom that we've had, and because of our awesome GOP leadership, we now have absolutely nothing to show for it. Hence why they're so eager to approve these pipelines. It's the only way to bring in a little bit more money so they don't look like complete failures.
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Pipelines that will add supply (pipeline capacity) that there isn't even any unfilled demand (adequate capacity, declining production) for. That's about the kind of 'forward thinking' leadership that is their forte :9.
 
plague311 said:
You must have missed the part where it contaminated a river tributary and at this point they're hoping it didn't get too far; however, they don't really know.

That was a tits up handwave though. It's been awhile since I've seen someone do it with such flippancy. Then to argue against an actual spill, with a made up scenario about what could happen with a train.
Good work, that's grade A skepticism.
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Made-up scenario? Try this little bit of reality on for size:

The Lac-Mégantic rail disaster occurred in the town of Lac-Mégantic, in the Eastern Townships of the Canadian province of Quebec, at approximately 01:15 EDT, on July 6, 2013, when an unattended 74-car freight train carrying Bakken Formation crude oil rolled down a 1.2% grade from Nantes and derailed downtown, resulting in the fire and explosion of multiple tank cars. Forty-two people were confirmed dead, with five more missing and presumed dead. More than 30 buildings in the town's centre, roughly half of the downtown area, were destroyed,] and all but three of the thirty-nine remaining downtown buildings are to be demolished due to petroleum contamination of the townsite. Initial newspaper reports described a 1-kilometre (0.6 mi) blast radius.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster
 
rockinkt said:
Made-up scenario? Try this little bit of reality on for size:

The Lac-Mégantic rail disaster occurred in the town of Lac-Mégantic, in the Eastern Townships of the Canadian province of Quebec, at approximately 01:15 EDT, on July 6, 2013, when an unattended 74-car freight train carrying Bakken Formation crude oil rolled down a 1.2% grade from Nantes and derailed downtown, resulting in the fire and explosion of multiple tank cars. Forty-two people were confirmed dead, with five more missing and presumed dead. More than 30 buildings in the town's centre, roughly half of the downtown area, were destroyed,] and all but three of the thirty-nine remaining downtown buildings are to be demolished due to petroleum contamination of the townsite. Initial newspaper reports described a 1-kilometre (0.6 mi) blast radius.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster
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And he didn't reference that spill, but I stand corrected.

We've had 292 oil spills over varying amounts in 2 years. So while I do stand correct, there is at least 1 instance of his hypothetical that has happened.

Also, I'm not defending train lines. Just because I don't want MORE pipelines doesn't mean I want MORE trains. That's a false dichotomy. I don't want either.
 
plague311 said:
Or maybe they could have used some of that $800 million to find a way to get clean *********** water. Thanks for the "what if" scenario. **** fracking too, if you want my honest opinion.
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Why should they have to and when did one tribal group represent all?
 
plague311 said:
And he didn't reference that spill, but I stand corrected.

We've had 292 oil spills over varying amounts in 2 years. So while I do stand correct, there is at least 1 instance of his hypothetical that has happened.

Also, I'm not defending train lines. Just because I don't want MORE pipelines doesn't mean I want MORE trains. That's a false dichotomy. I don't want either.
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Compared to the Lac-Megantic disaster - the sum total of those 292 spills is trifling.
 
I remember gasoline shortages. I remember OPEC holding us by the balls and squeezing. And the cry at the time was that domestic production and technology will save us.

Son of a gun, it did. So now we have fracking and pipelines. And we don't need to pull as much oil out of the ground half way around the world and ship it across an ocean in huge tankers. Technology delivered.

What technology has failed to deliver is the Disney-esque, morphine dreams of creative imagineers.

 
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SOP. Make waves about 'risks to public health', evict everyone in a sudden move, then complain about trash left behind. I had a friend who went up there 2 weeks ago for about 5 days specifically to help with clean-up efforts. The tribal council was discussing preparations to bring in some heavy vehicles to do exactly that.

Same thing happened at numerous Occupy camps. Police raid and clear the camp of all protestors, take razor blades to tents and baseball bats to electronics, toss stuff every which way, then invite the media to come over and document the mess 'those filthy protesters left behind.'

/yawn
 
theprestige said:
Pipeline protestors and environmental activists to the environment: "**** you."

And "**** you," to the community of Standing Rock, North Dakota, too. GJ, envirotards.
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That can all be recycled.

The new battlefront will have to be at the consumption end. By boycotting petroleum products, we can remove the incentive to keep mining the stuff. Let it rot in the pipeline.

Any word on where the Indians will be moving to? I'd support paying relocation money to them.
 
marplots said:
That can all be recycled.

The new battlefront will have to be at the consumption end. By boycotting petroleum products, we can remove the incentive to keep mining the stuff. Let it rot in the pipeline.

Any word on where the Indians will be moving to? I'd support paying relocation money to them.
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That would be a refreshing change. The traditional way is to just strip them of everything they own and send 'em walking.

It is the right time of year, though.
 
quadraginta said:
That would be a refreshing change. The traditional way is to just strip them of everything they own and send 'em walking.

It is the right time of year, though.
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It wouldn't surprise me if Indians invented snowshoes.

On the plus side, a long walk from where they are now (in 3 our of 4 directions) will land them someplace much nicer, considering they live in a Mad Max deathscape now.
 
Purportedly showing workers staging the 'left behind' trash to complain about:

https://www.facebook.com/jesse.puente.90/videos/1537969429550006/

Article on the tribe's plans to do its own clean-up work:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/cleanup-begins-dakota-access-pipeline-protest-encampment-45168829

Standing Rock's environmental protection agency organized the camp cleanup with the help of the Thunder Valley Community Development Corp. from South Dakota's Pine Ridge Reservation, which has arranged for heavy equipment including front-end loaders, dump trucks and skid-steer loaders.

"We'll be here eight to 10 hours a day all week. Then we'll reassess the situation," returning next week if necessary, said Nick Tilsen, Thunder Valley's executive director.

People who still have not left the camp are helping, bringing the total on the job to about 100, said Tilsen, who is among the workers. Cost of the cleanup isn't yet known, but the tribe will use money from the $6 million in donations it has received to support its pipeline fight, Archambault said.
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Meanwhile, Fox News suggests there may be dead bodies and weapons in the trash:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/0...sive-garbage-chunks-left-at-protest-site.html

Authorities in North Dakota said Monday that cleanup crews at the site of the Dakota Access oil pipeline protest were scouring the mountains of trash to find anyone that might’ve died during the demonstrations.

Morton County Sheriff’s Office Capt. Jay Gruebele told KFYR-TV that authorities were searching for “anything illegal, anything that might be used to, I guess, harm our officers during a protest.”

“As bad as it sounds, we're looking for people that may have died and could be wrapped up in a canvas or a tarp or tent," Gruebele added.
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ChristianProgressive said:
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...or in this case Texas...600,000+ barrel oil spill from a leaking pipeline...
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Good news. Reuters reported:
"Seaway Crude Pipeline Co LLC said on Sunday it had completed the necessary repairs and resumed service on its 30-inch (76 cm) diameter pipeline that was struck by a third-party contractor in Collin County, Texas on Jan. 30."

And the Texas Department of Transportation:
"TxDOT spokesman Ryan LaFontaine said in a phone interview Thursday that the type of oil involved in Monday's spill was light crude. He said that while the oil was contained within a day, it will likely take "several weeks" to clean the site fully."

That's what we want to hear. When there's an accident (and this was a bulldozer hitting the pipeline, not a flaw in the design) we definitely want to have a plan for clean-up and remediation. That's probably the only remedy for the panic-inducing "600,000 gallons" and "leaking pipeline." Happily, we skeptics don't stop reading after the headline, but delve into the guts of the story.
 
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Wolrab said:
About as much oil as an Olympic sized pool: Volume 2,500,000 L (550,000 imp gal; 660,000 US gal), assuming a nominal depth of 2 m.
2,500 m3 (88,000 cu ft) in cubic units.
About 2 acre-feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic-size_swimming_pool
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That's a lot. Back-of-the-envelope gives me about 10 miles of a 2-lane highway for virgin asphalt mix (5%, 6inches), or 20 miles with recycled added in. Odd to think I'm driving over that much oil every day. And that's about a day and a half's worth of flow through that pipeline.
 
marplots said:
Good news. Reuters reported:
"Seaway Crude Pipeline Co LLC said on Sunday it had completed the necessary repairs and resumed service on its 30-inch (76 cm) diameter pipeline that was struck by a third-party contractor in Collin County, Texas on Jan. 30."

And the Texas Department of Transportation:
"TxDOT spokesman Ryan LaFontaine said in a phone interview Thursday that the type of oil involved in Monday's spill was light crude. He said that while the oil was contained within a day, it will likely take "several weeks" to clean the site fully."

That's what we want to hear. When there's an accident (and this was a bulldozer hitting the pipeline, not a flaw in the design) we definitely want to have a plan for clean-up and remediation. That's probably the only remedy for the panic-inducing "600,000 gallons" and "leaking pipeline." Happily, we skeptics don't stop reading after the headline, but delve into the guts of the story.
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"The guts" apparently being the company's press release?

Time after time, they do some surface level cleanup and move on. Out of sight, out of mind...
 
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