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Utopia and Time Travel
- Thread starter RushR1
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William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
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You had better come up with a new way of expressing your ideas, because you said that there ain't no time and there ain't even anything at all unless there is a conscious thing to observe it.Of course not William.Read it again.
eta - in context.
The first time I read it it blew my mind. Then I read it twice more. Same crazy each time. Don't tell me about context.
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Navigator
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In order for something to be said to exist or time to be said to be seen as a property of that which is seen to exist, consciousness has to exist.
That which does the saying and seeing is consciousness.
So what I am saying (and said) is that if consciousness didn't exist in this universe, this universe may as well NOT exist because there is no consciousness in which to acknowledge that it exists.
Okay?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
That is a direct violation of the temporal prime directive.
Time travelers are strictly prohibited from revealing in any way that they are time travelers in any world that they visit nor may they use their knowledge of future events to gain an advantage in the world that they visit.
This directive is enforced vigorously by the time travel police. If a traveler violates the directive then the police will travel to the point where the time traveler departs and remove them. Penalties for such violations are very severe.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Not really. Space and time are two different ways of looking at one thing, which has imaginatively been called spacetime.
You know that story about the blind men and the elephant? It's a bit like that.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Another thought bubble is that a time traveler DID come back for you. However, their return occurred in a parallel universe. The course of events can not be altered in an existing universe.
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
The main hurdle as I see it is probably that time travel (backwards in time that is) isn't possible. It is possible to travel forwards in time of course. But you cannot return or affect anything from the past from the future.
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Their motivation is irrelevant if it isn't actually possible.
If we set that aside though, assuming it were possible, there might be very strict rules governing its use, so that the future doesn't get messed up by people interfering with the past. Even if they wanted to help you, they couldn't risk the consequences.
What if future time travelers have already traveled back in time not to try to kill Hitler before he gained power, but to prevent him from being killed in the untinkered time line, because for their future world it is essential all the horrors of WW 2 had happened? What would they care of the millions dead in 1930s to 1940s if the sanctity of their own utopia was at stake? What would they care about our lives? We are the long dead to them.
The good news is that we can all travel forward in time. The bad news is that there is only one speed available and no stopping or reverse. But if one wants to change the future, this is how one can do it. Start work on it right away.
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Technically, a faster speed is possible because of General Relativity. But for practical purposes, it is essentially just one speed.
All you would need to speed up time so that you can travel to the distant future in a relatively short time from your own perspective is a spaceship that can travel really fast.
Or take a really really long nap...
Your not comprehending, be that as it may, demonstrate anything you've written in this reply is true. That is the next step.What object does time represent, in order that we can show it exists?
And change and movement are the same process.
Time represents the property of movement/change (movement IS change) and as such, would not exist without objects.
Truly the universe is a kind of house of mirrors, but I didn't create it, I am experiencing it.
So are you and all of us.
Now, this signifies that 'we all' are observers and without us within this universe, without consciousness within this universe, this universe might as well not exist.
See?
In order for something to be said to exist or time to be said to be seen as a property of that which is seen to exist, consciousness has to exist.
The observer (consciousness) is required as the fundamental property to anything existing.
(just to bring it back to the thread topic)
If a consciousness from the future were able to somehow go back to our present and enter a form in which it could then use to insert ideas into this present which would help change that future, then it may be possible for the reverse to be done too.
In order for this to be done, time would somehow have to be moved out of and back into, and if time is the property of this universe, then that would mean having to somehow leave this universe at this present point and enter it again at the future point and visa versa.
Therefore, in order to be able to do this, there would have to be another 'place' outside of this universe for the consciousness to go.
Navigator
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That's vague.
Use more than logical argument, prove it by experimentation. I hope that's clear enough.
Navigator
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Logical argument is sufficient. Where do you think is might not be. Be specific.
Beelzebuddy
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alexi_drago
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Ok, I'll try.
Say you're looking through your really powerful telescope at a martian and it's looking back at you. At one point you sneeze, then a few seconds later you look back through your telescope only to see the martian spilling it's martian coffee but it continues to look through it's telescope. From the martians point of view it spilled it's coffee first then saw you sneeze some time later.
So there was a now for you where you'd sneezed but the martian hadn't yet spilled it's coffee, and there was a now for the martian where it'd spilled it's coffee but you hadn't yet sneezed.
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Great find!
I became very bored with the old plot line of time travelers going back to "fix" a historic wrong and I began to think- if there is time travel how could we know what the "real" (unaltered) history might have been? Maybe time travelers went back in time to change a "real" (unaltered) history (e.g. the Titanic missed the ice berg at the last minute) into an altered one that we only think is the "real" history (e.g. the Titanic hits the ice berg). The reasons could be many, but I would presume hypothetically that the repercussions of the Titanic missing the ice berg were much worse than having it hit the ice berg (one of the passengers would, if not drowned, have later ensured a Nazi victory in WW2??), so the time travelers had to make the ship hit the berg whereas it wouldn't otherwise have done so.
Of course this entire thread makes me think of the Time Travelers Convention at MIT in 2013. When one of the organizers was asked by a reporter if they planned to make it an annual event, the organizer asked, "Why?" Brilliant!
CynicalSkeptic
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Whatever changes this future time traveler makes would just be undone by his fellow time travellers. The same thing happens every time some n00b kills Hitler.