Pizzagate

a_unique_person said:
If this Pizzagate is real then where are the victims?
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Wait. You're going too fast. I'm confused now.

In most good CT's there are no victims. Only "vicsims". Paid government actors.

Because mass murder is a myth. It never, ever happens. They are just false flag ops.

Which to me says, that Pizzagate is real. The CTers have uncovered a massive conspiracy here. I think once they become aware of their need for "vicsims" , things should calm though.
 
a_unique_person said:
If this Pizzagate is real then where are the victims?
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<s>

Clearly, you've lost sight of the issue!

Forget the victims, the important conclusion here is that the masterminds are spooky super-villains and you should be very upset that they exist*!

</s>

*with the loaded implication that maybe someone should do something about it

But yes, I agree.

Why aren't these subreddit and 'alt-media' keyboard warriors ringing the phones off the hook at every relevant alphabet soup agency under the sun? Why aren't there mass protests in front of the Hoover building in D.C. day and night until a backhoe arrives to breach the supposed tunnels into the (nonexistent) basement and free these poor innocent children from their doomed future?
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
Paganism was slandered as satanic by the Catholic Church in their path to world dominance. Any local deities they couldn't obliterate they subsumed as "saints." But the entire iconography of prechristian European paganism was painted as evil in their war. As a result, neopaganism tends to seem very made-up because it was, from whole cloth, with very scant information to inform the practitioners.
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OK, I know that. That's ancient history. What I was getting at is any evidence that modern-day Satanists use antlers, and that their beliefs and rituals involve paedophilia.
I know a few pagans, and they are at great pains to point out the difference between paganism and Satanism. For sure, the Catholic church attempted to conjoin the two, but, in terms of relevance to Pizzagate and other 'Satanic sex abuse' allegations, this would surely mean that today's Satanists don't actually know what their religion is about. Alternatively, if there are peadophiles, but they aren't Satanists, it would make absolutely no sense to try to disguise your group by overtly displaying symbols (correct or otherwise) of a group associated (by some) with paedophilia.
It would make far more sense to disguise your group as the opposite of that. Like the Catholic church.
Oh, wait....:jaw-dropp
 
What drives me nuts about this is that these morons are confronted with someone who admits to being a sexual predator and had access to young girls in the Miss Teen USA Pageant. Yet, they obsess on the most unlikely of scenarios that could not possibly be an actual child sex abuse ring. If what you care about is the sexual abuse of children, why not worry about the possible, if not likely sexual abuser in front of them. Oh wait, it's because this has nothing to do with protecting children. There must be something else at work here...
 
Cosmic Yak said:
OK, I know that. That's ancient history. What I was getting at is any evidence that modern-day Satanists use antlers, and that their beliefs and rituals involve paedophilia.
I know a few pagans, and they are at great pains to point out the difference between paganism and Satanism. For sure, the Catholic church attempted to conjoin the two, but, in terms of relevance to Pizzagate and other 'Satanic sex abuse' allegations, this would surely mean that today's Satanists don't actually know what their religion is about. Alternatively, if there are peadophiles, but they aren't Satanists, it would make absolutely no sense to try to disguise your group by overtly displaying symbols (correct or otherwise) of a group associated (by some) with paedophilia.
It would make far more sense to disguise your group as the opposite of that. Like the Catholic church.
Oh, wait....:jaw-dropp
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There are splinters of each religion that consider all churches that do not follow their dogma, are inspired by, duped by, or in cahoots with, Satan.
 
Craig4 said:
What drives me nuts about this is that these morons are confronted with someone who admits to being a sexual predator and had access to young girls in the Miss Teen USA Pageant. Yet, they obsess on the most unlikely of scenarios that could not possibly be an actual child sex abuse ring. If what you care about is the sexual abuse of children, why not worry about the possible, if not likely sexual abuser in front of them. Oh wait, it's because this has nothing to do with protecting children. There must be something else at work here...
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Isn't this typical "Rove Gambit?"

I might have my terms mixed up, but simply put "accuse your opponent of your own worst qualities."
 
Well you can read the pro-CT side in this tread for yourself and see how their logic fails.

They'd say that they didn't think it was all real, but in the same sentence they would say something didn't add up, and then say it was real. When confronted with fact they would complain that we were trying to silence them, and that the allegations should be looked into, which they have been at least four times since this BS started.

Check the source for yourself:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails

Use search terms
pizza -IE -clips
"hot dogs" -IE -clips

These are the "pizza" references:

No need for pizza:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Handkercheif map:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Get a pizza for an hour:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Did not make you a nice pizza:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Doing over a pizza tonight:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Our Pizza Logo:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Dinner OR Pizza:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...

Pizza.jpg
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/...


Give me a break. The Podesta brothers seem to be close, and honestly I don't trust anyone living in an American city who doesn't eat pizza. There is nothing here. At least with 9-11 Truth you have WTC7, there is jack doo-doo in these emails.

So the CTers claim it's all code.

Podesta's personal assistant screens all of his emails, so why would he use the same account to commit a felony and risk getting caught? Everyone here has at least 2 email accounts.

The logic doesn't track and the facts are nonexistent.
 
Axxman, all your links there are to the main Podesta Emails page at Wikileaks, none of them go to a specific page.
 
jaydeehess said:
There are splinters of each religion that consider all churches that do not follow their dogma, are inspired by, duped by, or in cahoots with, Satan.
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Indeed.
However, this still leaves us with no connection between Satanism, paedophilia and the wearing of antlers, except from some fringe fundamentalists.
This fake news story isn't religious, though: it's political. It's fakery piled on falsehood and fed by idiocy, then: the false propaganda of religious zealots hijacked by political schemers, and given momentum by the uncritical acceptance of the CT crowd.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Indeed.
However, this still leaves us with no connection between Satanism, paedophilia and the wearing of antlers, except from some fringe fundamentalists.
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You dismiss too quickly the population size of those who would make the leap from "antlers = vaguely pagan = Satanist"; but I think another thing you need to consider is that part of what allows these people to make that particular leap in this case is the involvement of the Clintons, who have for ages been pegged as Satanists not simply by "fringe fundamentalists" but by conspiracists at large. Alex Jones was not breaching new ground during the election when he claimed on his show that "it has been reported" Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama "literally smell like literal sulfur". To people who buy that, the painting on its own might be vague, but add a "connection" to Hillary Clinton and Satanism becomes a foregone conclusion.
 
Checkmite said:
You dismiss too quickly the population size of those who would make the leap from "antlers = vaguely pagan = Satanist"; but I think another thing you need to consider is that part of what allows these people to make that particular leap in this case is the involvement of the Clintons, who have for ages been pegged as Satanists not simply by "fringe fundamentalists" but by conspiracists at large. Alex Jones was not breaching new ground during the election when he claimed on his show that "it has been reported" Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama "literally smell like literal sulfur". To people who buy that, the painting on its own might be vague, but add a "connection" to Hillary Clinton and Satanism becomes a foregone conclusion.
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A good point, but I think my original point still stands. There may well be a connection in the minds of the ignorant, the paranoid and the fundamentalist, but that connection is still false. Satanists don't wear antlers and, as far as we know (at least, no-one has yet posted to the contrary), don't engage in ritual paedophilia.
Thus, using artwork with antlers as evidence of Satanism is wrong. If they were Satanists, they wouldn't be using antlers. If they are using antlers, they aren't Satanists. You can't use the artwork as evidence of either Satanism or paedophilia.
 
Kestrel said:
You can't use the artwork as evidence of either Satanism or paedophilia.
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When there are still people asking questions about Proctor&Gamble's logo that they haven't even used in decades, your protestations about misplaced identifications of satanic symbolism are perhaps a bit too optimistic.

Finding the "hidden meaning" in these sorts of things is just something that a subset of the religious and conspiracy theorist communities do. And literally no amount of logical argument or evidence will convince them to finally, completely shut up about their "findings".
 
Cosmic Yak said:
A good point, but I think my original point still stands. There may well be a connection in the minds of the ignorant, the paranoid and the fundamentalist, but that connection is still false. Satanists don't wear antlers and, as far as we know (at least, no-one has yet posted to the contrary), don't engage in ritual paedophilia.
Thus, using artwork with antlers as evidence of Satanism is wrong. If they were Satanists, they wouldn't be using antlers. If they are using antlers, they aren't Satanists. You can't use the artwork as evidence of either Satanism or paedophilia.
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Another thing to consider: what exactly a "Satanist" is. When you see and use the term, you think of basically either the group of LARPing trolls founded by Anton LaVey for the purpose of tweaking Christians' metaphorical noses, or the quasi-religious humanist club that is upfront about the fact that it doesn't consider Satan to be a person that actually exists but uses the name "Satanism" for some symbolic or convoluted philosophical reason. In other words, you're thinking of "real world" Satanists.

When Christian fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists talk about "Satanists", they're talking about an imaginary organized religion that literally worships the personal Satan, the evil adversary of the biblical God/Jesus. This was actually the original definition of "Satanism" - like "witch", the term was later appropriated by these other groups that share little in common with the original concept (except that the theatrics of LaVey's version are of course inspired by it). These paranoid fundamentalists are the original inventors of "Satanism" and in that sense, it can be anything they want it to be. If they want antler-headdresses and child sex abuse to be intrinsic aspects of Satanism, then they are intrinsic aspects of Satanism. That "there are other people who took it upon themselves to start calling themselves Satanists that don't wear antlers, so obviously wearing antlers has nothing to do with Satanism" is not an ontologically consistent argument.
 
Checkmite said:
Another thing to consider: what exactly a "Satanist" is. When you see and use the term, you think of basically either the group of LARPing trolls founded by Anton LaVey for the purpose of tweaking Christians' metaphorical noses, or the quasi-religious humanist club that is upfront about the fact that it doesn't consider Satan to be a person that actually exists but uses the name "Satanism" for some symbolic or convoluted philosophical reason. In other words, you're thinking of "real world" Satanists.

When Christian fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists talk about "Satanists", they're talking about an imaginary organized religion that literally worships the personal Satan, the evil adversary of the biblical God/Jesus. This was actually the original definition of "Satanism" - like "witch", the term was later appropriated by these other groups that share little in common with the original concept (except that the theatrics of LaVey's version are of course inspired by it). These paranoid fundamentalists are the original inventors of "Satanism" and in that sense, it can be anything they want it to be. If they want antler-headdresses and child sex abuse to be intrinsic aspects of Satanism, then they are intrinsic aspects of Satanism. That "there are other people who took it upon themselves to start calling themselves Satanists that don't wear antlers, so obviously wearing antlers has nothing to do with Satanism" is not an ontologically consistent argument.
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Again, we're on the same page. I agree entirely. In fact, that was the point of my original question. Citing symbolism not used by an imaginary religion surely cuts the foundation from under this fake story. There is no connection, and there probably isn't any Satanism, as envisaged by frothing-at-the-mouth evangelicals.
It is my hope that, by pointing this out, at least some of the believers in this nonsense will turn away from it.
Talking of which: I need to go and have a word with Horatius about misattributing my words. Who is this Kestrel fellow anyway?
 
Well lookee here.
Alex Jones is busily distancing himself from Pizzagate.
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/...veals-new-tie-connecting-shooter-jones/214809
Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones is scrubbing online content pushing the false and dangerous conspiracy theory that Hillary Clinton’s campaign trafficked children through a D.C. pizzeria. A man who recently entered the pizzeria with a rifle and fired shots reportedly shared a piece of Jones’ content before the shooting; the video he shared is still on the website.



Jones and his Infowars website have promoted the false conspiracy theory dubbed "pizzagate," which alleges that top Clinton associates such as campaign manager John Podesta are trafficking children through the Comet Ping Pong restaurant.

The false claims took a dangerous turn when Edgar Maddison Welch fired an assault rifle inside the pizzeria because he was trying to “self-investigate” the conspiracy theory. FBI special agent Justin Holgate stated in a criminal complaint that Welch said he sent a video on the night of December 1 with the message “Watch PIZZAGATE: The Bigger Picture on YouTube” to a friend before the shooting.
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