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Trump's Taiwan Call

Giz said:
The Chinese economy is neither as big as the USA nor is it gaining. It is, in fact, in some serious trouble.

Them holding our debt is a weakness - for them - in any serious standoff.

Military wise, China has managed the neat trick of frightening all of its neighbors... The Vietnamese, Japanese, Koreans and Philippines would all be likely to side with the USA, leaving China effectively blockaded until it came to its senses.
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Well I'm sure you have some links then that refute the ones I posted.

Bottom line, the US, China and Russia are still rival superpowers. Yes, we may have the most powerful military, and Russia hasn't recovered from the collapse in the 80s. But if you think China is no more than a fly the US can swat when we want to, you are poorly informed.


By the way, it would appear you think internal economic troubles in China because they haven't had the large growth this decade means their whole economy is on the brink. If that's the case, the US wasn't a superpower in 2008 when our housing bubble collapsed.
 
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NoahFence said:
China could hurt us a lot more than we could hurt it. We depend on their cheap labor to keep our costs down.
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And their ability to flood world currencies with US dollars crashing the value of the dollar is not an impossibility.
 
Ziggurat said:
We shouldn't have to think 10 moves ahead in order to do something we're so manifestly within our rights to do.
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The problem is that it is not within "your" rights. Mainland China regards Taiwan as a part of the country. Taiwan reciprocates that view and so far the US has agreed.

Saying that it is within "your" rights to do so is tantamount to saying that Taiwan is an independent country.
How would the US react if China announced that Hawaii is an independent country and that it will militarily assist a Hawaiian independence government against any attacks?
 
Giz said:
What severe consequences? What could they do that would hurt the USA more than China?
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Obviously it's not necessary to think about what China could do to Taiwan. I mean, who cares about Taiwan?
 
GnaGnaMan said:
The problem is that it is not within "your" rights. Mainland China regards Taiwan as a part of the country. Taiwan reciprocates that view and so far the US has agreed.

Saying that it is within "your" rights to do so is tantamount to saying that Taiwan is an independent country.
How would the US react if China announced that Hawaii is an independent country and that it will militarily assist a Hawaiian independence government against any attacks?
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Taiwan does what????

No they don't. Cripes.
 
I have no problem with the US changing its long-standing policy on Taiwan, a policy I always found morally repugnant. I do, however, have a problem with the president-elect doing it by accident without consulting Sino-American relations experts in State and Intelligence.
 
Loss Leader said:
I have no problem with the US changing its long-standing policy on Taiwan, a policy I always found morally repugnant. I do, however, have a problem with the president-elect doing it by accident without consulting Sino-American relations experts in State and Intelligence.
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I think the point of the charade is to satisfy China's ego problem with Taiwan without the alternative, they invade it and take it back.

Yes, we could call their bluff and hope they don't invade Taiwan. Or they could invade Taiwan and what, we go to war over it?

Clearly they don't want to start a war over Taiwan or they would have already. But why start a diplomatic war of words when the situation is stable at the moment? What would be the benefit?
 
GnaGnaMan said:
Obviously it's not necessary to think about what China could do to Taiwan. I mean, who cares about Taiwan?
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That is an Orwellian way to look at it.

You do realize that the democratically elected president of Taiwan called trump, right? So obviously this is what the Taiwanese want. (So "who cares about them" = trump)
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I think the point of the charade is to satisfy China's ego problem with Taiwan without the alternative, they invade it and take it back.
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I think it's rather the international version of adverse possession. If the PRC stops insisting Taiwan is part of it, it ceases to be. As long as it is widely agreed that Taiwan is part of China, it is.

Yes, we could call their bluff and hope they don't invade Taiwan. Or they could invade Taiwan and what, we go to war over it?

Clearly they don't want to start a war over Taiwan or they would have already. But why start a diplomatic war of words when the situation is stable at the moment? What would be the benefit?
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The US has pledged to defend Taiwan ever since the 50ies. For most of that time the PRC would not have been able to launch a successful invasion. I'm not sure what the situation is now. Maybe it still couldn't.
 
By the way, we sell billions of dollars worth of weapons to Taiwan every single year.

Maybe this will cause the dirt bags in China to rethink their ******* antics in the South China Sea and get their rabid dog pals in North Korea in line.
 
Giz said:
Military wise, China has managed the neat trick of frightening all of its neighbors... The Vietnamese, Japanese, Koreans and Philippines would all be likely to side with the USA, leaving China effectively blockaded until it came to its senses.
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What do you base that opinion on?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I think the point of the charade is to satisfy China's ego problem with Taiwan without the alternative, they invade it and take it back.

Yes, we could call their bluff and hope they don't invade Taiwan. Or they could invade Taiwan and what, we go to war over it?

Clearly they don't want to start a war over Taiwan or they would have already. But why start a diplomatic war of words when the situation is stable at the moment? What would be the benefit?
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Our policy regarding Taiwan has been based on a convenient fiction that both sides have tolerated: Taiwan is kind-of/sort-of independent. That's never a viable long-term strategy. Better we change it now then later.
 
Giz said:
That is an Orwellian way to look at it.

You do realize that the democratically elected president of Taiwan called trump, right? So obviously this is what the Taiwanese want. (So "who cares about them" = trump)
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I'll answer my own question here since you won't:
What China could do to Taiwan is bomb and invade it.

You can cheer Trump for taking a call from the Taiwanese president. It means diddly-squat. The only thing that means anything is an iron-clad guarantee that the US will go to war with China for Taiwan.

I'm not convinced that Trump cares about Taiwan. I don't think he meant to pledge American lives to a foreign cause by picking up the phone.
 
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GnaGnaMan said:
The problem is that it is not within "your" rights.
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Taking a phone call isn't within our rights? The **** it isn't!

Mainland China regards Taiwan as a part of the country. Taiwan reciprocates that view and so far the US has agreed.
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Yes, we all agree to participate in an obvious lie.

Saying that it is within "your" rights to do so is tantamount to saying that Taiwan is an independent country.
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First, Taiwan IS an independent country. Second, taking a phone call doesn't actually change the situation. Hell, it doesn't even change the fiction that it isn't.

How would the US react if China announced that Hawaii is an independent country and that it will militarily assist a Hawaiian independence government against any attacks?
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That isn't even remotely what happened here.
 
GnaGnaMan said:
I'll answer my own question here since you won't:
What China could do to Taiwan is bomb and invade it.
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China is not yet prepared to do that successfully.

But it's not going to come to anything even like that. China's own response (blaming it on the Taiwanese and not Trump) is a pretty clear indicator that this isn't going to escalate.
 
There are a lot of disputed territories around the world. I hope Trump seeks grown-up advice before he speaks to a representative of another one.
 
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