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Brexit: Now What? Part II

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ceptimus said:
So go after The Don and others to provide links for their lists of claims too.

Oh, that's right, you're only asking for link evidence when someone posts something that goes against your own predetermined opinion.
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You're perfectly at liberty to ask others for links to their claims. You have an obligation to provide links for yours when so asked. This has been the paradigm for ages.



In a totally unrelated comment, this thread always leaves me thinking of this Pratchett quote:

“Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of ‘democracy’ with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away.”

― Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant
 
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ceptimus said:
So go after The Don and others to provide links for their lists of claims too.
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The claims were individually supported at the time they were first added. I have just consolidated them into a single list.

Are you suggesting that the government has not made commitments to one or more of the points in the list ? If so, which one(s) are you contesting ?
 
Well, the Buckingham Palace one ought to be removed. As said earlier, it's not really a Brexit thing is it?
 
ceptimus said:
So go after The Don and others to provide links for their lists of claims too.

Oh, that's right, you're only asking for link evidence when someone posts something that goes against your own predetermined opinion.
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No I am not. That's another claim of you without evidence. Since I mostly read the same source as them, the BBC, I usually read the same article and do not require a link. But it DID happen at the start of the thread that I asked Don and other source about what a politician said. Just look it up.

But it is not the first time you throw claim around without solid backing. Like that "voter would still vote no today" claim , for which you have presented no evidence, whereas we presented you counter evidence that in fact , some voter DID change their mind as polling showed (ETA in fact enough statistically to change the 52%/48% the other way around).
 
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Tolls said:
Well, the Buckingham Palace one ought to be removed. As said earlier, it's not really a Brexit thing is it?
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OK - I think I had included it as yet another thing that was reducing the amount of money the government was receiving

Current list:

So now the "£350m a week" has to cover:

  • The £122bn budget shortfall
  • Additional funding for the NHS
  • Maintaining farming subsidies
  • Maintaining fishing subsidies
  • Indemnifying manufacturers against negative impacts of Brexit
  • £2bn a year for science and innovation
  • Replace EU investment for our poorest regions
  • Pay our EEA subscriptions
  • Pay for the department of Brexiting
  • Pay for the department of International Trade
  • Pay for bodies to set and enforce rules currently handled by the EU
 
The Don said:
OK - I think I had included it as yet another thing that was reducing the amount of money the government was receiving

Current list:

So now the "£350m a week" has to cover:

  • The £122bn budget shortfall
  • Additional funding for the NHS
  • Maintaining farming subsidies
  • Maintaining fishing subsidies
  • Indemnifying manufacturers against negative impacts of Brexit
  • £2bn a year for science and innovation
  • Replace EU investment for our poorest regions
  • Pay our EEA subscriptions
  • Pay for the department of Brexiting
  • Pay for the department of International Trade
  • Pay for bodies to set and enforce rules currently handled by the EU
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Keep in mind that the Breixtard campaign promised to increase the funding for NHS for £350m a week alone.

McHrozni
 
We most likely won't be paying any EEA subscriptions. You can take that one out too.

Davis answered the question 'Will the Government consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the Single Market?' and he quite sensibly answered that he would be prepared to pay if that gave the best deal for goods and services trading.

Remoaners have dishonestly seized on that answer as saying that he might want to remain in the EEA - but the EU have consistently maintained that EEA membership is dependent on continued free movement and Prime Minister May has ruled that out.

So like I say, EEA subscriptions is one that can be removed from your list. Once you've done that I might work on some of the others.
 
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ceptimus said:
We most likely won't be paying any EEA subscriptions. You can take that one out too.

Davis answered the question 'Will the Government consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the Single Market?' and he quite sensibly answered that he would be prepared to pay if that gave the best deal for goods and services trading.

Remoaners have dishonestly seized on that answer as saying that he might want to remain in the EEA - but the EU have consistently maintained that EEA membership is dependent on continued free movement and Prime Minister May has ruled that out.

So like I say, EEA subscriptions is one that can be removed from your list. Once you've done that I might work on some of the others.
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We could just say that either UK will pay for EEA commitments or else the 350m a week will have to pay for the damage to the economy and lost income due to UK leaving the EEA.

The latter number is larger than 350m by a factor of 3 conservatively, realistically by about 10.

McHrozni
 
ceptimus said:
One bit of rubbish that the EU is spouting is that when we do leave, we'll owe them €60 billion as some sort of severance payment for commitments already made.

It's a ridiculous figure of course. Typical of the sort of nonsense the EU comes up with and another reason why we should leave ASAP.
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Is that supposed to be an example for "confusing and contradictory statements"?
What is ridiculous about it?
 
ceptimus said:
We most likely won't be paying any EEA subscriptions. You can take that one out too.

Davis answered the question 'Will the Government consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the Single Market?' and he quite sensibly answered that he would be prepared to pay if that gave the best deal for goods and services trading.

Remoaners have dishonestly seized on that answer as saying that he might want to remain in the EEA - but the EU have consistently maintained that EEA membership is dependent on continued free movement and Prime Minister May has ruled that out.

So like I say, EEA subscriptions is one that can be removed from your list. Once you've done that I might work on some of the others.
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Why ?

David Davis said that he is prepared to pay them - now you may think that that it couldn't possibly happen but that's just your opinion.
 
Craig B said:
This, from BBC, is very bad news for Brexit.
Sarah Olney [Liberal Democrat] wins Richmond Park by-election, beating incumbent Zac Goldsmith standing as an independent.​
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:D Yes, I saw that. Much discussion in the office over it too...

It's definitely been portrayed (justifiably I believe given how Olney campaigned) as a plebiscite on the Brexit farce, given that both were on the same side of the only local issue of note.
Though some of the vote may have been a protest at Goldsmith being, well himself


And a good performance by Howling Laud Hope too. Obviously the legacy of the excellent leadership of Catmando still at work.
 
The Don said:
Sorry, missed a couple ...

So now the "£350m a week" has to cover:

  • The £122bn budget shortfall
  • Additional funding for the NHS
  • Refurbishing Buckingham Palace
  • Maintaining farming subsidies
  • Maintaining fishing subsidies
  • Indemnifying manufacturers against negative impacts of Brexit
  • £2bn a year for science and innovation
  • Replace EU investment for our poorest regions
  • Pay our EEA subscriptions
    [*]Pay for the department of Brexiting
    [*]Pay for the department of International Trade
    [*]Pay for bodies to set and enforce rules currently handled by the EU

What a shambles.
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Don't forget BoJo's support for increased military spending to strengthen NATO. Increasing expenditure from 2% to 2.5% would cost Stg£13.8B, though this might go down when USK GDP plummets...
 
ceptimus said:
One bit of rubbish that the EU is spouting is that when we do leave, we'll owe them €60 billion as some sort of severance payment for commitments already made.

It's a ridiculous figure of course. Typical of the sort of nonsense the EU comes up with and another reason why we should leave ASAP.
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And yet again you demonstrate your parochial ignorance of reality.
The money is owed by the UK, though the exact amount is to be determined. The UK will either have to pay or default and face the consequences.

McHrozni said:
People who make ludicrous claims are supposed to provide evidence themselves.

The article clearly states UK owes this money already. It's only connection with Brexit is that UK will have to fulfill it's obligations despite it.

McHrozni
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Ah, reality. Getting in the way for fantasies for millennia.
 
No. Davis didn't say (AFAIK) that he would be prepared to pay EEA subscriptions. He only answered that the government would consider making some contribution in some shape or form if it secured the best deal for post Brexit trade in goods and services.

He didn't spell out what that contribution might be: it might not even be a payment.

Wayne David asked, "Will the Government consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the single market?"

Davis answered, "The simple answer we have given to this before is, and it's very important because there is a distinction between picking off an individual policy and setting out a major criteria, and the major criteria here is that we get the best possible access for goods and services to the European market. If that is included in what you are talking about, then, of course, we would consider it."

Remainers have interpreted this answer as, "Davis now admits that the Government is prepared to pay for EEA access in deal similar to the one Norway has!!!!1111"

Who's being the more dishonest here?
 
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ceptimus said:
No. Davis didn't say (AFAIK) that he would be prepared to pay EEA subscriptions. He only answered that the government would consider making some contribution in some shape or form if it secured the best deal for post Brexit trade in goods and services.

He didn't spell out what that contribution might be: it might not even be a payment.

Wayne David asked "Will the Government consider making any contribution in any shape or form for access to the single market?"

Davis answered, "The simple answer we have given to this before is, and it's very important because there is a distinction between picking off an individual policy and setting out a major criteria, and the major criteria here is that we get the best possible access for goods and services to the European market. If that is included in what you are talking about, then, of course, we would consider it."

Remainers have interpreted this answer as, "Davis now admits that the Government is prepared to pay for EEA access in deal similar to the one Norway has!!!!1111"

Who's being the more dishonest here?
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Well you for completely misrepresenting the views of the Remainers.
 
The Don said:
Well you for completely misrepresenting the views of the Remainers.
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You're the one who has added 'Pay our EEA subscriptions' to your list.

There cannot be any EEA subscriptions after Brexit unless the EU commissioners are lying about EEA membership being conditional on free movement and/or Theresa May is lying in her vow that free movement must be curbed.
 
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Downing Street has said the result of the Richmond Park by-election is a matter for the area's constituents and the government is getting on with the job of "making a success" of Brexit.*

Pressed repeatedly about what message Theresa May drew from the poll, the Prime Minister's official spokesman referred instead to the EU referendum result saying it had sent a "very clear message".*
 
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