Trump Claims Millions of Illegal Votes Cast

[Belz...]

Neither is voting legally.

...which carries zero risk.

 

[Belz...]

Hey wait a minute. How do we know that Sasquatches are not registering to vote?

How does one illegally register to vote in the US, exactly?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why would you think that, given the lawsuits to try to stop attempts to purge the voter rolls?

All you've posted so far is a four+ year old accusation. No evidence.

Why would there be a lot of headlines about what the press doesn't really care about?

Seriously? You're going with, the press that sells scandal and gave Trump hours and hours and free airtime is conspiring to suppress the fact non-citizens voted in the hundreds of thousands?

CT thread that way -->>

Is there any mechanism to automatically check? No, there isn't. So how would you know?

All you have is speculation. In a decade, still no actual evidence of widespread voter fraud. And yes, the mechanisms to check are called voter registration offices.

That's not voter fraud. Voter fraud is rather specific. You should know that, given how at pains your side is to point out the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud (which this isn't either).

I see, so if it comes from the top via voter caging, voter roll purges aimed at specific populations, and restricted access to both voter IDs and polling places, that isn't fraud.

I'd love an honest look, but it won't ever come from you. The system is fundamentally insecure. It has few mechanisms to punish, prevent, or even detect voter fraud. You take it as an article of faith that if we don't detect it, it can't be happening, but that's all it is: an article of faith.

I don't know if there's widespread voter fraud. But that uncertainty seems to be by design.

The GOP Created the “Rigged Vote” Myth

The modern movement to persuade Americans that Democrats rig elections began during the George W. Bush administration. Following the harrowingly close 2000 election, Republicans realized that the GOP would benefit from laws that limited Democrats’ access to the ballot—stringent voter ID measures, whose burdens fell disproportionately on minorities, a mostly Democratic constituency. But states needed an excuse to pass these laws, so Bush ordered the Justice Department to uncover and prosecute as many instances of voter fraud as it could find. In reality, there were only a handful of bona fide voter fraud cases throughout the country. But Bush notoriously fired United States attorneys who couldn’t find fraudulent voters to prosecute, signaling to Justice Department attorneys that their jobs depended on rooting out nonexistent fraud.
Between 2002 and 2006, the Bush administration’s crackdown led to a grand total of 86 convictions of voter fraud out of about 200 million ballots cast, a rate of 0.00004 percent.* A majority of the convicted voters had simply filled out registration forms inaccurately or misunderstood eligibility rules. Yet Republican politicians and lobbyists effectively repackaged these meager findings as proof that Democrats were corrupting the electoral system and possibly even unlawfully swinging elections. Over the next decade, state legislatures passed a raft of voting restrictions—including voter ID requirements and early voting cuts—along party lines

Myth of Voter Fraud

The Brennan Center’s ongoing examination of voter fraud claims reveal that voter fraud is very rare, voter impersonation is nearly non-existent, and much of the problems associated with alleged fraud in elections relates to unintentional mistakes by voters or election administrators. Our report "The Truth About Voter Fraud" reveals most allegations of fraud turn out to be baseless — and that of the few allegations remaining, most reveal election irregularities and other forms of election misconduct. Click here for additional resources on fraud.

Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth
18 studies and sources are cited. Why not look at the actual evidence rather than the right wing echo of speculation and fear mongering?
And there's the full 50 page report: The Truth About VOTER Fraud


Can't you just be honest? Here's the Federalist claiming evidence of voter fraud:
Voter Fraud Is Real. Here’s The Proof

The author cites more "investigations" rather than demonstrated instances.

He cites errors filling out registration forms - that's not voting fraud.

He uses faulty logic again implying the fraud it there, it just can't be found.

The author's black so he cites this in response to the racist application of voting restrictions:

The Heritage Foundation has shown that black voter turnout actually increased after North Carolina passed its voter ID law.

Backfired, didn't it? It doesn't support the claim voter fraud is real, nor does that support the claim minorities are not targeted with voter ID laws.

 

[Stacko]

That's a pretty big "oops".

It's probably hard for to look at these figures and not think, "Did I do that?"

Clinton trails Donald by 10K votes in MI; Stein got 50K.

Clinton trails Donald by 22.5K votes in WI; Stein got 30K.​

 

[sunmaster14]

...which carries zero risk.

Not if you include driving to the polls. Or crossing the street to get to the polls. Or encountering violent demonstrators along the way. Or a terrorist attack. In any case, you're spending your time, which is a finite resource and a pretty large price to pay for many people.

 

[sunmaster14]

It's probably hard for to look at these figures and not think, "Did I do that?"

Clinton trails Donald by 10K votes in MI; Stein got 50K.

Clinton trails Donald by 22.5K votes in WI; Stein got 30K.​

Wisconsin - no way. Michigan - maybe. Even if you assume Stein voters would be more likely to vote for Clinton than Trump without Stein in the race (which is already a dubious assumption given how Clinton had a reputation as a war-mongering, corporatist stooge among Stein supporters), and that they wouldn't vote for Gary Johnson or write-in instead, you also have to assume they would even go to the polls in the first place. Changing the outcome in Michigan is plausible, but of course that wouldn't be nearly enough to matter.

 

[Belz...]

Not if you include driving to the polls. Or crossing the street to get to the polls. Or encountering violent demonstrators along the way. Or a terrorist attack.

Or a meteor!

Most people don't take everyday base risks into consideration when comparing two scenarios in which the same risks exist. Now could you please stop playing with words?

 

[zorro99]

Trump is full of shaving cream.

 

[Bob001]

How does one illegally register to vote in the US, exactly?

Every state has its own standards. (There is no "U.S." voting system.) The voter fills out an application with his personal information, including his statement that he is a U.S. citizen eligible to vote, and swears it's true under penalty of perjury. Some states require ID to register. Some states require registration weeks or months in advance, some allow registration on election day, some states have "Motor Voter" laws that register voters when they get their driver licenses. After someone is registered, his name is on a voter list, and when he votes he gives his name at the polling place. Some states require ID there, but most don't. To register to vote illegally, someone has to swear to false information, and he might have to present false ID.
http://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote
http://vote.gov/
http://register.rockthevote.com/registrants/new

 

[phiwum]

Not if you include driving to the polls. Or crossing the street to get to the polls. Or encountering violent demonstrators along the way. Or a terrorist attack. In any case, you're spending your time, which is a finite resource and a pretty large price to pay for many people.

Time and risk is a small price to pay for me, but for most elections, the potential payoff is still not in my interest to participate.

The only reason I chose to vote this year around is that my personal dislike of Trump made it worth my while. My vote was pissing in the wind, as far as the outcome was concerned, but this time it gave me some solace to cast it.

 

[pgwenthold]

This. If the Trumpet really believed there were voting irregularities he should support a recount.

Yeah. His objection to a recount is that there are millions of fraudulent votes that were cast.

Someone is going to have to connect the dots for me.

 

[Belz...]

Some states require ID there, but most don't. To register to vote illegally, someone has to swear to false information, and he might have to present false ID.

How likely would it be that "millions" could pull this off?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

How does one illegally register to vote in the US, exactly?

Many possibilities.

I'm registered as Jrrarglblarg D. Butttrumpet, but the name on my drivers license is Donald J. Butttrumpet. If I attempt to register as Don J in addition to being registered as Jrrarglblarg D, I'm in violation.

If I am a college student legally registered in my home state, registering to vote in my school state is not actually illegal, but voting in both states is.

If I'm not legally eligible to vote for any of various reasons,

Q14. What are the penalties for voting or registering to vote if I am ineligible?

A14. It is unlawful for any person to procure false voter registration. A violation could result in a fine of up to $5,000, or imprisonment in the county jail for up to 18 months, or both. Any person who votes in an election knowing that they are not entitled to vote commits a class 5 felony. See sections 1-13-203 and 1-13-704.5, C.R.S.

 

[Ziggurat]

All you have is speculation.

It's not speculation that the system is inadequately secured. That remains true regardless of how much that insecurity has been exploited.

I see, so if it comes from the top via voter caging, voter roll purges aimed at specific populations, and restricted access to both voter IDs and polling places, that isn't fraud.

Yes, it's not voter fraud. Just like murder isn't voter fraud. Saying it's not voter fraud is a value-neutral statement. It's merely a factual description of whether it matches the definition of the term. And it doesn't. It's peculiar that you're hung up on trying to shoehorn stuff you don't like into that term, while simultaneously claiming voter fraud isn't a real problem. It's contradictory, illogical, and definitionally wrong.

He cites errors filling out registration forms - that's not voting fraud.

Correct. You recognize a mismatch in definition in this case, but not when you do it. Peculiar.

 

[Bob001]

How likely would it be that "millions" could pull this off?

Are you asking me? I think it's extremely unlikely, in large part because there's no benefit and at least potential risk to the illegal voter.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Many possibilities.

I'm registered as Jrrarglblarg D. Butttrumpet, but the name on my drivers license is Donald J. Butttrumpet. If I attempt to register as Don J in addition to being registered as Jrrarglblarg D, I'm in violation.

If I am a college student legally registered in my home state, registering to vote in my school state is not actually illegal, but voting in both states is.

If I'm not legally eligible to vote for any of various reasons,

But how did you register the first time and how did you get your driver's license?

 

[Belz...]

Are you asking me? I think it's extremely unlikely, in large part because there's no benefit and at least potential risk to the illegal voter.

I didn't expect anything else. I was just looking for a different perspective.

 

[Spindrift]

It's not speculation that the system is inadequately secured. That remains true regardless of how much that insecurity has been exploited.
.

Just because it may be insecure (I disagree), it doesn't follow that it has been exploited, at least on a large scale.

I still want to know how voting fraud is to be committed on a sufficiently large scale so that it affects a statewide or national election and the fraud isn't noticed.

 

[Ziggurat]

Just because it may be insecure (I disagree), it doesn't follow that it has been exploited, at least on a large scale.

I didn't say that it has been exploited on a large scale. But it does follow that if it's insecure, we should secure it.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I didn't say that it has been exploited on a large scale. But it does follow that if it's insecure, we should secure it.

I think it's more secure than you think it is. I looked at the system as a "poll watcher" this election, looking for exploits. The lack of "voter ID" is worked around by this county just fine, and possibility of individual illegal aliens individually voting is likely to be caught by some other filter point, unless they're pretending to be citizens in enough ways to "might as well" be citizens; in other words, not the "OMG illegals!" problem asserted b others elsewhere including our President Elect.

I encourage all citizens to find out how your county does things. Lack of knowledge allows wild unfounded speculation without impingement by reality.