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Trump Claims Millions of Illegal Votes Cast

Stacko said:
I think a better use of the funds people are giving the Green Party to pocket would be to hire a plane to fly around Trump Tower everyday of his administration with a banner showing the popular vote results. He's so insecure it's debilitating.
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Now this is an idea I could get behind. If you started a crowdfunding campaign with this as the goal, I would seriously consider donating.
 
Ziggurat said:
....
The system has very little security. We should expect some abuse of the system because it's easy to get away with it, just like it's easy to get away with speeding.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nearly-200000-Florida-Voters-May-Not-Be-Citizens-151212725.html
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Florida has been notorious for years for attempting to purge voters -- often likely to be Democrats -- from the rolls unjustly. The case you cite went to federal court, and the registrar ultimately cut those "nearly 200,000" improper registrations down to 85 (two digits). And the state didn't claim those people actually voted.
The state originally identified 180,000 questionable voters, comparing rolls primarily to driver’s license data. The secretary of State cut that list to 2,600, then to 198. At the end of the process, 85 voter names were thrown out.
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http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...ge-illegal-but-will-it-stop-GOP-voting-tweaks
 
Bob001 said:
Here's an observer who thinks Trump's claims of election fraud actually weaken his own legitimacy. If there were fraudulent votes, who can say some weren't cast for him, especially in those states where he won by bigger margins than expected?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-for-a-recount-of-his-own-2016-election-win/
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Crooked WaPo can't be trusted. Sad.

Glad to see some of the few remaining professional journalists are trying to do their jobs at last. Not that it makes any difference. The people capable of compartmentalizing sufficiently to have voted Trump in the first place don't and won't see the disconnect between the winner of an election simultaneously claiming election shenanigans and decrying the efforts of not-him to look for election shenanigans.
 
Meadmaker said:
Fortunately, though, no one takes his claim seriously, save for a few fringe lunatics, so the damage will be limited.
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I'm not convinced that this is true. I'm under the impression that a pretty large number of Trump supporters believe this sort of thing. Since polls don't work anymore, I can't know how many, but I don't think it's just a tiny fringe.
 
Stacko said:
I think a better use of the funds people are giving the Green Party to pocket would be to hire a plane to fly around Trump Tower everyday of his administration with a banner showing the popular vote results. He's so insecure it's debilitating.
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You know, a campaign reminding people Clinton won by more than 2 million votes is not a bad idea. Bumper stickers, yard signs, billboards...

This might catch on, at a minimum remind those moderate GOPers they don't have a mandate.
 
Ziggurat said:
Because it's not much of a risk.



Suppose that the election board finds the name of a non-citizen on the voter registration rolls. What happens? Does that non-citizen face criminal prosecution? No, he doesn't. Why not? Because it's essentially impossible to prove that he's really the one who registered. You can't be convicted for someone else fraudulently registering your name.

Suppose further that the election board finds that someone voted under the name of a non-citizen. What happens? Does that non-citizen face criminal prosecution? No, he doesn't. Why not? Because it's essentially impossible to prove that he's really the one who voted under that name. You can't be convicted for someone else fraudulently voting under your name.

The system has very little security. We should expect some abuse of the system because it's easy to get away with it, just like it's easy to get away with speeding.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nearly-200000-Florida-Voters-May-Not-Be-Citizens-151212725.html
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Given that article talks about the pending 2012 election, you would think in 4 years, especially with a GOP dominated state government that this would have been sorted out by now. Where are the headlines they confirmed all these non-citizen voters?

I know the GOP imagines illegal immigrants are voting, but the evidence is always pending.

And I recall another story claiming all sorts of people were registered in two locations because they moved and the old registration address wasn't deleted. But never with all that evidence did anyone show any of these people actually voted in those two locations.

The GOP in this state claimed all sorts of voting irregularities. Why? Because they sent a team out to question signatures. If you signed your initial voter registration 20 years ago, guess what? People's signatures change over time. Turns out that's all it was.

Where is the story those illegal voters were ever confirmed?

Now if you want actual voter fraud, how about the State of FL purging all voters with the same name as a convicted felon, without verifying the voter actually was that person?
On 17 April 2001, James Lee testified, before the McKinney panel, that the state had given DBT the directive to add to the purge list people who matched at least 90% of a last name. DBT objected, knowing that this would produce a huge number of false positives (non-felons).[4]
Lee went on saying that the state then ordered DBT to shift to an even lower threshold of 80% match, allowing also names to be reversed (thus a person named Thomas Clarence could be taken to be the same as Clarence Thomas). Besides this, middle initials were skipped, Jr. and Sr. suffixes dropped, and some nicknames and aliases were added to puff up the list.
"DBT told state officials", testified Lee, "that the rules for creating the [purge] list would mean a significant number of people who were not deceased, not registered in more than one county, or not a felon, would be included on the list. DBT made suggestions to reduce the numbers of eligible voters included on the list". According to Lee, to this suggestion the state told the company, "Forget about it".
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How about an honest look at the situation rather than this imaginary, confirmatory evidence always elusive, look at voter fraud?
 
eeyore1954 said:
The law was passed in 2011.
It went into effect in June 2014
I believe the closings were over a year later.

Not exactly promptly closed.
These offices gave out 9,000 licenses in 2014 and now the county board of registrars will provide photo ID.
Offices that gave about 300 licenses a year were closed because the cost was prohibitively high in a time of budget constraints.
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That is interesting. I did not see that information in other articles but it is here.

Whitmire ties the DMV office closings to the state’s voter photo-ID law, passed in 2011, which went into effect last year. (note the article is dated 2015 so it confirms the dates provided by eeyore)
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Mother Jones also has an interesting take on it.

The black population of the affected counties is actually lower than it is for the whole state. If Alabama was deliberately trying to target blacks, they sure seem to have made a hash of it.
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I stand corrected.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You know, a campaign reminding people Clinton won by more than 2 million votes is not a bad idea. Bumper stickers, yard signs, billboards...

This might catch on, at a minimum remind those moderate GOPers they don't have a mandate.
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To make that point, I would include the third-party totals. If you include votes for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, an actual majority of voters wanted somebody other than Trump.
 
I was hoping that President-Elect Trump would stop being the stupid, idiotic, liar that Candidate Trump was, however my hopes for such a remarkable development have been quashed.

Oh well! At least I did not have to wait too long for Trump to show his true colors after winning the electoral college election.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Given that article talks about the pending 2012 election, you would think in 4 years, especially with a GOP dominated state government that this would have been sorted out by now.
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Why would you think that, given the lawsuits to try to stop attempts to purge the voter rolls?

Where are the headlines they confirmed all these non-citizen voters?
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Why would there be a lot of headlines about what the press doesn't really care about?

And I recall another story claiming all sorts of people were registered in two locations because they moved and the old registration address wasn't deleted. But never with all that evidence did anyone show any of these people actually voted in those two locations.
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Is there any mechanism to automatically check? No, there isn't. So how would you know?

Now if you want actual voter fraud, how about the State of FL purging all voters with the same name as a convicted felon, without verifying the voter actually was that person?
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That's not voter fraud. Voter fraud is rather specific. You should know that, given how at pains your side is to point out the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud (which this isn't either).

How about an honest look at the situation rather than this imaginary, confirmatory evidence always elusive, look at voter fraud?
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I'd love an honest look, but it won't ever come from you. The system is fundamentally insecure. It has few mechanisms to punish, prevent, or even detect voter fraud. You take it as an article of faith that if we don't detect it, it can't be happening, but that's all it is: an article of faith.

I don't know if there's widespread voter fraud. But that uncertainty seems to be by design.
 
Cleon said:
It's not much of a benefit, either, unless done on a large scale.
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And that's the open question: is it being done on a large scale?

The answer is nobody really knows. And that is a problem in and of itself.
 
Ziggurat said:
And that's the open question: is it being done on a large scale?

The answer is nobody really knows. And that is a problem in and of itself.
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And no one really knows if Bigfoot is real, because maybe he's running around in the woods and no one has ever managed to find a good photograph or specimen.


There are lots and lots of people running for elective office. Large number of illegal voters, concentrated in specific precincts, would sway a lot of elections. They would sway congressional and senate elections. Governor elections. State legislature elections. Sheriff and judge elections. There would be hordes of people who are very motivated to uncover that large scale fraud. Many of those people are good lawyers, and many more have the funds to hire good lawyers.

If there were millions of illegal votes cast, there would be lots and lots of evidence. People losing close elections on scales smaller than Electors for President and Vice President of the United States would be very motivated to charge fraud, and expose fraud, and sue for recounts after alleging fraud, and sue local officials who cooperate with fraud or fail to pursue allegations of fraud.

Yes, just like bigfoot, you can't commit fraud on anywhere close to the scale that Trump has alleged without leaving behind plenty of evidence.


Hey wait a minute. How do we know that Sasquatches are not registering to vote?
 
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