Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

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Here's some additional relevant information regarding LCN DNA profiling.

Source: www.denverda.org/dna_documents/lcn dna article gill.pdf

Application of Low Copy Number DNA Profiling
Peter Gill
Forensic Science Service, Trident Court, Birmingham, UK

Croatian Medical Journal 42(3):229-232,2001



Dr. Gill's article was published in 2001, and thus it clearly cannot be considered as reflecting some bias resulting from the Kercher case or the accusations against Knox and Sollecito. It does represent conclusions from an actual scientific expert in DNA and LCN DNA profiling who conducted studies relevant to forensics.

This is where you've been misled, Numbers.

I'm only now authorized to reveal that the conspiracy is not just Masonic led, but it was anticipated 6 years beforehand. Yes, Marriott got to Peter Gill in 2001 to set all this up.

You have no idea.
 
This is where you've been misled, Numbers.

I'm only now authorized to reveal that the conspiracy is not just Masonic led, but it was anticipated 6 years beforehand. Yes, Marriott got to Peter Gill in 2001 to set all this up.

You have no idea.

Wait a minute......

The only possible explanation for this.... is that.... no...

Is Forensic Science International responsible for Meredith's murder? And they've been planning this since 2001? Perhaps Amanda and Raffaele (and that one dude, Rudy, who left evidence of himself everywhere in the murder room) are only pawns in this grand conspiracy of the Freemasons?

The only other possible explanation is that... the guilters are wrong and do not know as much forensic science as the top forensic scientists in the world, and they do not know as much Italian law as the Italian Supreme Court. And thus, since we know that they are not super nuts and actually quite smart in the grand scheme of things, the only possibility is that the entirety of the Forensic Science community has been planning Meredith's murder SIX FULL YEARS before it ever happened? Those bastards....

Once you eliminate the impossible (the guilters are super nuts and kinda dumb), whatever remains, no matter how improbable (Amanda Knox is a pagan sex sorceress, but only a pawn in the grand designs of Forensic Science International), must be the truth.

Elementary, my dear Vixen. ~Giuliano Mignini
 
...what Judge Nencici wrote in 2014 sunk in - remember: he was the one who the 2015 ISC said believed he'd been directed by the 2013 ISC to convict the pair.

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Judge Nencini correctly interpreted the Chieffi court report, which was explicitly clear in its message: don't acquit the students.

Judge Nencini had no feasible way to acquit the students that wouldn't have directly violated the Chieffi court's directives in how to interpret the evidence.

There was no option of acquitting the students.


The Marasca court is unfairly making judge Nencini a fall guy to get out of scrutinizing the horrendously ineffective higher court system which allowed the Chieffi decision to exist.

If you think Nencini is the problem with this case, then you're ignoring the greater systemic issues that permeates the entire Italian judicial system.
 
If you think Nencini is the problem with this case, then you're ignoring the greater systemic issues that permeates the entire Italian judicial system.

Oh probably.

But at least I'll go with Marasca on this point. At the very least Nencini should be ashamed if not in prison.
 
You do realise that there's zero credible, reliable evidence of their participation in the murder, don't you? They didn't commit any crimes, let alone "depraved" ones. MezzyWezzyBaby was murdered by Rudy Guede.
Clearly, I am not the only one to find the familiar form just a bit scary. "Meridith" "Kercher" and even MK would be fine.

"Mez" simply makes my skin crawl.

In the UK or US, in a competent court, therefore, Knox and Sollecito would without a shadow of a doubt have been acquitted. End of story.
Possibly not a good idea. Finnish law will be wheeled out as authorative. Even though it isn't.

(They almost certainly wouldn't have been charged and tried either.........)
Even that doesn't matter. It takes something special to fly in the face of all available evidence.
 
Clearly, I am not the only one to find the familiar form just a bit scary. "Meridith" "Kercher" and even MK would be fine.

"Mez" simply makes my skin crawl.

Possibly not a good idea. Finnish law will be wheeled out as authorative. Even though it isn't.

Even that doesn't matter. It takes something special to fly in the face of all available evidence.

Keep on posting, everyone. I so enjoy watching Vixen twist herself into a pretzel trying to defend her indefensible position. So amusing.
 
It's rubbish the knife could have been contaminated. Gill gets his 'shoe box' thesis from Vecchiotti and the Friends of Amanda lawyers, desperate to try any old 'glove-doesn't-fit' defence tactic.

The real story of the collection and handling of the knife is here:

From Massei (Wiki, English translation, page 106): Testimony of Armando Finzi, chief inspector of the Flying Squad of Perugia, confirmed by Stefano Gubbiotti and assistant Zugarini Lorena at the hearing of February 28, 2009.

“As soon as the knife was picked up he (Finzi) put it in a new paper bag that he had with him and then in a folder.

The sealed bag with the 31 centimetre knife inside was handed over to superintendent Gubbiotti. The bag the knife was put in was new and had never been previously used; in the same [bag] there was never any other item.”

“He (Stefano Gubbiotti) said that upon returning to the police station, inspector Finzi handed him the material seized in the home of Sollecito Raffaele. The first thing he handed over was the knife which was inside a new bag that was well wrapped and submitted closed and thus had no contact with the exterior. He specified that when handing over such knife he had new gloves on, which he had not used on other occasions and which he took from the office.

Therefore, with those gloves, he removed the knife from the bag and put it inside a box that he sealed with scotch-tape. He specified that such box previously contained a desk diary and no other items apart from “the new desk diary offered” by a bank. This box was then sent, along with other findings, to the Scientific Police in Rome.”

Needless to say no shoe box addressed to Meredith was involved.

So you agree the knife was taken out of the sealed clean envelope that it was placed in at Sollecito's flat. That this was done at the police station, not in a laboratory set up for dealing with low template DNA. That it was placed in a box that had been 'lying around' at the police station. What we do not know is what other items from the crime scene had been handled and packaged in that room in the police station. We do not know who had handled the box prior to the knife being put in. One source of contamination might be that the victim's blood stained clothing had passed through the room. Some DNA fell on the outside of the box, then when the box was opened by Gubbioti he got DNA from the outside of the box on his clean gloves and transferred it to the knife.

Gubbiotti should never have removed the knife from the packaging but put the knife in the unopened envelope in the box for transport.

There are special guidelines about handling evidence for DNA testing because of the risks of contamination. One is that as Finzi emphasised he had not been to Knox's flat so that he could not cross contaminate, unfortunately Gubbioti had been to murder scene so should never have handled the knife from a separate scene. There is actually a skill to putting on gloves without touching the outside with your barehands to avoid transfer contamination from your barehands on to the outside of the gloves. This is very different from the 'traditional' use of gloves by police to stop them leaving fingerprints on things.
 
Vecchiotti is not a DNA expert either, she's just a journeyman coroner.

The idea that Gill's shoe box theory is 'deep and serious' is extremely amusing.
Italy does not have coroners. So Vecchioti cannot be a coroner. In England coroners are judges, are you saying that Vecchioti was a judge?
 
Keep on posting, everyone. I so enjoy watching Vixen twist herself into a pretzel trying to defend her indefensible position. So amusing.
Yeah, that's odd. Mostly, I just lurk. I only delurk for the most egregious rubbish. To add mockery. Let's face it. When the proponent is unable to figure out it's own nationality there is clearly a problem.
 
Yeah, that's odd. Mostly, I just lurk. I only delurk for the most egregious rubbish. To add mockery. Let's face it. When the proponent is unable to figure out it's own nationality there is clearly a problem.

It would be nice to hear from guilters lurkers, esp. one who might not flood the thread with such obvious factoids. For instance, I'd not heard it before the claim that Popovic thought Sollecito was "off his head". Not even the most wacko had risked that one.

Any guilter lurkers out there?
 
Oh probably.

But at least I'll go with Marasca on this point. At the very least Nencini should be ashamed if not in prison.

The verdict was out of his hands. A verdict at the trial or appellate level means absolutely nothing in Italy. It. means. Nothing. The ISC will just re-try the case in 1 hour in their chambers and then issue any new verdict they like after re-interpreting the evidence however they like. It's an entirely arbitrary system.

Amanda was found guilty by Chieffi, then innocent by Marasca, in warring, contradictory ISC verdicts. The only reason there wasn't another Chieffi for round three is because Italy does have double jeopardy, somehow.
 
It would be nice to hear from guilters lurkers, esp. one who might not flood the thread with such obvious factoids. For instance, I'd not heard it before the claim that Popovic thought Sollecito was "off his head". Not even the most wacko had risked that one.

Any guilter lurkers out there?

Credo nessuno qui, ma noi innocenti.
 
My verdict is that this thread is pretty good evidence of multiple cases of ... hook, line, and sinker.

Perhaps there's a Douglas Adams ref here, something to do with "... thanks for all the fish."
 
Clearly, I am not the only one to find the familiar form just a bit scary. "Meridith" "Kercher" and even MK would be fine.

"Mez" simply makes my skin crawl.

Possibly not a good idea. Finnish law will be wheeled out as authorative. Even though it isn't.

Even that doesn't matter. It takes something special to fly in the face of all available evidence.

It's interesting you should say that. My use of the terms 'Amanda', 'Raff', 'the kids' and 'Mez' is a parody of the very terms used by the PIP when I joined the forum. So, we see a spectacularly repugnant fireworks display of hypocrisy in the PIP's complaining about my using their own terms. It's interesting they have no problem about two degenerate murderers and rapists being spoken about in terms of endearment.
Edited by kmortis: 
Removed to comply with Rule 12 & Rule 0



As for your personal attack, may I suggest you venture outside of your own country now and again. That is the best cure for xenophobia. Perhaps you believe the |Italians are backward and out to get the little darlings.
 
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Some interesting parallels:

Brendan Dassey to Mom, Barbara Tadych: 'Yeah, I did it.'

Amanda Knox to Mom, Edda Mellas, 'I cannot lie. I was there.'

Thomas Mair, defendant in the murder of Jo Cox, MP, declines to take the stand to defend himself.

Raffaele Sollecito, defendant int he murder and rape of Meredith Kercher, declined to take the stand to defend himself.
 
Welcome to merry-go-round week

Amanda Knox to Mom, Edda Mellas, 'I cannot lie. I was there.'

It's merry-go-round week here at ISF.

That, "I was there" quote from Knox was made during a secretly taped prison conversation. It did not have the "I cannot lie," lead in.

In the context of the whole secretly taped conversation, it is plain Knox was telling her mother she'd been at Raffaele's all night.

What could go wrong with that citation? Well, consider that this "I was there" quote was the basis of a headline from an Andrea Vogt article c. 2008-9, where she was privy to this information.

Why is this merry-go-round week?

Because is perhaps the fourth or fifth time in these threads (23 continuations in all) that someone like Vixen has touted it as a factoid; an admission of guilt.

Former poster Machiavelli was the last guilter to have at it. His defence of Andrea Vogt was to say she was correct that this was an admission of guilt by Knox. After arguing like cats and dogs, we finally got an admission from Machiavelli that Knox was referring to her claim of being at Raffaele's all night.

I'd have to look up the exact reference, but then Machiavelli said something in the neighbourhood of - despite it being an overt reference to Knox being at Raffaele's all night, Knox and her mother were actually engaged in Mafia-speak.

Now Vixen chucks it into the thread. Without citation. Just one of a cartload of assertions by Vixen devoid of ......... well, devoid of anything really - other than it is yet another factoid-assertion.
 
Some interesting parallels:

Brendan Dassey to Mom, Barbara Tadych: 'Yeah, I did it.'

Amanda Knox to Mom, Edda Mellas, 'I cannot lie. I was there.'

Thomas Mair, defendant in the murder of Jo Cox, MP, declines to take the stand to defend himself.

Raffaele Sollecito, defendant int he murder and rape of Meredith Kercher, declined to take the stand to defend himself.

And I said those very same things at my mothers corpse. Who identified the body? "Yeah, I did it", "I cannot lie, I was there", All true.

Somehow, Vixen purloins that into "so you admit murdering your mother". complete and utter bollocks.
 
Some interesting parallels:

Brendan Dassey to Mom, Barbara Tadych: 'Yeah, I did it.'

Amanda Knox to Mom, Edda Mellas, 'I cannot lie. I was there.'

Thomas Mair, defendant in the murder of Jo Cox, MP, declines to take the stand to defend himself.

Raffaele Sollecito, defendant int he murder and rape of Meredith Kercher, declined to take the stand to defend himself.

Ever hear the term "out of context"? Because that is what you are doing. Posting statements out of of context. You were doing that 6 months ago, a year ago and even years before that. Nothing changes except now you are whining about a settled case. Whine, whine, whine.
 
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