Who killed Meredith Kercher? part 23

[LondonJohn]

Wow . . . . . What can one say in response? What should one say in response? Why even respond?

Maybe the words of P. Ganong are appropriate: "thanks for stopping by".

I know. It stands alone as parody in its own right, with little need for commentary. It's up there with the canon of quotes by Baghdad Bob (I had to google the word "canon" in order to to understand it properly and use it here, in a ludicrous attempt to appear erudite and possessing of a decent vocabulary...). At least Baghdad Bob was a decent grammatarian.

 

[LondonJohn]

LOL! The lack of following International protocols was what Novelli said!!! Hoots.

I guarantee that there is not a SINGLE, unbiassed, unaffiliated DNA expert scientist in the entire global realm of academia or practice, who knows about this case in sufficient detail, who:

1) endorsed/endorses the basic work practices of Stefanoni in this case in respect of the forensic evidence against Knox and Sollecito - in every single area of her work, from her crime scene evidence collection work, through to her transportation and storage of the forensic evidence, through to the way in which she tested the samples and interpreted the machine outputs;

2) agrees with the concept that the raw electronic data files - inclusive of negative controls - do not need to be made available to all parties in order to mount any sort of effective defence of (or even any sort of reasonable understanding of) the results presented;

3) believes that Stefanoni performed testing and analysis of low-template DNA samples in her laboratory (including both the knife and the bra clasp) under anything remotely approaching the correct - and mandatory - protocols and procedures;

4) believes (because of (1), (2) and (3) above) that the low-template results presented by Stefanoni to the courts (including specifically the DNA results from the knife and the bra clasp) should under any circumstances be perceived as reliable or credible.


If one wants to talk about things that are "as clear as the nose on your face", then the fundamental garbage that constitutes the DNA evidence against Knox and Sollecito in this case (characterised by shockingly inept and incompetent malpractice at every single level of the process, and compounded by mendacity and misdirection of the courts) is one such thing.

 

[Bill Williams]

I guarantee that there is not a SINGLE, unbiassed, unaffiliated DNA expert scientist in the entire global realm of academia or practice, who knows about this case in sufficient detail, who:

< ..... sinister deletia ..... >​

This is a reprint of an Oct 2011 piece on why the DNA evidence against Knox and Sollecito was so wonky.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/09/how-weak-dna-evidence-railroadedand-then-rescued-amanda-knox/

Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. Kobilinski has seen the DNA test results from the Knox case and helped walk us through the reasons that DNA evidence isn't always as airtight as it sometimes looks on TV.

......​

the DNA evidence, which was finally evaluated by two experts from the Universita di Roma.

The experts were not kind to the evidence. The bra clasp, it turned out, had sat on the floor for more than six weeks after the murder before being secured and processed; photographs show that it had been moved between the murder and its eventual collection. The clasp was the only DNA evidence placing Sollecito at the scene of the crime; no DNA put Knox on the scene at all.

The supposed murder weapon, a long kitchen knife, was found in the home of Sollecito, in his kitchen knife drawer. The knife held little DNA and, according to the experts, the local authorities had not handled the tests properly to compensate.

In short, there were problems with all the DNA evidence used in the trial. Without a witness or reliable DNA evidence, Knox's conviction was overturned on October 3, and she was freed, returning immediately to the US.​

 

[Welshman]

He's the Tom Robinson figure. Judging by Donald Trump's win recently, there are still people with that mindset (and the Brexit vote in the UK).

The idea a racist white woman would help a black man to rape and murder a white woman is an utterly ludicrous idea even by Vixen's standards.

 

[LondonJohn]

The idea a racist white woman would help a black man to rape and murder a white woman is an utterly ludicrous idea even by Vixen's standards.

Uh no, because, ermmm, she had a devious and evil plan to scapegoat "the black guy" for the murder from the very beginning:

"I really want to participate in a thrill killing with my new lover Raffaele, and I hate Meredith, so she's going to be the target. But I don't want to get caught or punished for it, so here's my plan: we (Raffaele and I) will rope in the hapless Rudy, who I know has the hots for me and will do what I want him to do (up to and including participating in a murder), even though we've only ever exchanged a few pleasantries before. Once we make sure Rudy is well and truly involved, and once we've done the thrill killing, Raff and I will simply stay behind and make sure we clean up all the evidence of our own participation but leave all the evidence of Rudy's participation. If I do get heavy questioning from the police, I will then (for reasons I don't fully understand....) make a false accusation against a different black guy, Patrick. This will ultimately lead the police to the actual black guy whom we've nicely framed for the murder - Rudy. I haven't thought through the legal consequences to myself of making the false accusation of Patrick, but that's probably because I'm kooky and dippy (when I'm not being devious and cunning). Simples!"

 

[Vixen]

This is a reprint of an Oct 2011 piece on why the DNA evidence against Knox and Sollecito was so wonky.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/09/how-weak-dna-evidence-railroadedand-then-rescued-amanda-knox/

​

Would Dr Lawrence Koblinsky be one of those defense forensic experts who get rich on undermining police evidence? the same guy who 'exonerated' JonBenet Ramsay's father from having anything to do with the murder of his daughter and pinpointed some 'unknown male' instead...?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...fense-dna-expert-takes-stand-article-1.310989

 

[Bill Williams]

Would Dr Lawrence Koblinsky be one of those defense forensic experts who get rich on undermining police evidence? the same guy who 'exonerated' JonBenet Ramsay's father from having anything to do with the murder of his daughter and pinpointed some 'unknown male' instead...?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...fense-dna-expert-takes-stand-article-1.310989

Wow..... at least this is not strawman. It is simply clutching at straws.

Once again, the sole criterion for your assessment is the conclusion at which they reach.

You still have not cited one peer-reviewed forensic DNA expert who sides with the original Perugian police or the Stefanoni-led DNA analysis claimed in court.

No matter.

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Would Dr Lawrence Koblinsky be one of those defense forensic experts who get rich on undermining police evidence? the same guy who 'exonerated' JonBenet Ramsay's father from having anything to do with the murder of his daughter and pinpointed some 'unknown male' instead...?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...fense-dna-expert-takes-stand-article-1.310989

Vixen,
Do you believe it is, in principle, completely impossible to do poor forensic DNA work? Do you believe the possibility of contamination is a myth propagated by scientists? Why do you think laboratories develop rigorous protocols to get correct results which minimize the possibility of errors? Is it just for fun and they like to waste time and money?

 

[Bill Williams]

This piece was written last September, just after the release of the Netflix documentary.

Despite the piece's title ("Why the Amanda Knox Case Still Doesn't Make Any Sense: Inside a Shockingly Misogynistic Murder Investigation"), author Natalie Finn actually does lay out why this whole judicial charade makes sense.

http://www.eonline.com/ca/news/798815/why-the-amanda-knox-case-still-doesn-t-make-any-sense-inside-a-shockingly-misogynistic-murder-investigation

A sample.......

A kitchen knife found in Sollecito's house had Kercher's DNA on the blade—and neither could explain why it was there. VF would report, however, that multiple sources said the knife blade was inconsistent with the wounds.

As the high court and a handful of independent experts would later determine, the collection, handling and analysis of forensic evidence in the case was tantamount to a joke.​

 

[NotEvenWrong]

It's almost like all of the stuff that doesn't make sense about the case is easily explainable by poor forensic work and Amanda and Raffaele weren't actually involved in a pagan sex orgy murder.

But that would mean all the world renowned independent forensic experts are right that Amanda and Raf are innocent? And that means the guilters are wrong and um, well let's be honest here, super crazy. I don't want to live in a world where forensic scientists know more forensic science than TJMK and PMF posters.

 

[Bill Williams]

It's almost like all of the stuff that doesn't make sense about the case is easily explainable by poor forensic work and Amanda and Raffaele weren't actually involved in a pagan sex orgy murder.

But that would mean all the world renowned independent forensic experts are right that Amanda and Raf are innocent? And that means the guilters are wrong and um, well let's be honest here, super crazy. I don't want to live in a world where forensic scientists know more forensic science than TJMK and PMF posters.

I had assumed that the headline for the piece above meant;

We're no closer to discovering the truth of what happened to Meredith Kercher...​

When it probably meant:

The case they tried to foist onto AK and RS was non-existent and never made sense from the onset.​

The one good thing about the Netflix documentary is that it takes the glare off of Amanda Knox, and puts it to where it always should have been:

1) The superstitious Sherlock-Holmesian buffoonery of Giuliano Mignini

2) the race to the bottom of the tabloid swamp by the likes of Nick Pisa

3) that through all this the victim really had been forgotten. She was just a footnote for the project of wrongfully convicting some and trying to minimize the impact of the real perp.​

 

[Stacyhs]

Uh no, because, ermmm, she had a devious and evil plan to scapegoat "the black guy" for the murder from the very beginning:

"I really want to participate in a thrill killing with my new lover Raffaele, and I hate Meredith, so she's going to be the target. But I don't want to get caught or punished for it, so here's my plan: we (Raffaele and I) will rope in the hapless Rudy, who I know has the hots for me and will do what I want him to do (up to and including participating in a murder), even though we've only ever exchanged a few pleasantries before. Once we make sure Rudy is well and truly involved, and once we've done the thrill killing, Raff and I will simply stay behind and make sure we clean up all the evidence of our own participation but leave all the evidence of Rudy's participation. If I do get heavy questioning from the police, I will then (for reasons I don't fully understand....) make a false accusation against a different black guy, Patrick. This will ultimately lead the police to the actual black guy whom we've nicely framed for the murder - Rudy. I haven't thought through the legal consequences to myself of making the false accusation of Patrick, but that's probably because I'm kooky and dippy (when I'm not being devious and cunning). Simples!"

LJ, you forgot another very devious part of her cunning plan.

"After taking a knife from Raff's own kitchen drawer, instead of using one from my own kitchen, we'll kill Meredith with it. Then, I'll cunningly remove all traces of blood from it using bleach which will most certainly (I hope) also removed all of her DNA from it, and then put it back in Raff's drawer. Being the evil genius that I am, I will also use another, albeit smaller, knife that will match all the knife wounds and leave its bloody outline on the bed before getting rid of it."

 

[Planigale]

'International protocols' is a lie and a figment of Vecchiotti's dishonest imagination. All results were within the parameters of Italy's DNA standards.

Stop telling me what to do.

Since no one referenced an actual document of Italy's DNA standards, I suspect these did not exist. Even now what is referenced are the European standards. What Steffanoni did reference were the manufacturers documentation.

 

[Planigale]

Rudy has been granted his Appeal.

https://truecrimespodcasts.com/2016...-defendant-rudy-guede-is-granted-a-new-trial/

I suppose a retrial if it came to the conclusion that Guede broke in, then having been caught in the act by a lone woman proceeded to sexual assault which then escalated to murder, might be good for the family of the victim giving them closure as the judicial system concluded the sole perpetrator was incarcerated. I suspect those committed to Solicit and Knox as having been participants would just say that this was yet another corrupt Italian trial and the only proper trial were the first trials of Guede and Knox and Sollecito.

My understanding is that Guede cannot receive a higher penalty than the one he currently has, so from Guede's PoV he has nothing to lose in seeking a retrial.

 

[Vixen]

I suppose a retrial if it came to the conclusion that Guede broke in, then having been caught in the act by a lone woman proceeded to sexual assault which then escalated to murder, might be good for the family of the victim giving them closure as the judicial system concluded the sole perpetrator was incarcerated. I suspect those committed to Solicit and Knox as having been participants would just say that this was yet another corrupt Italian trial and the only proper trial were the first trials of Guede and Knox and Sollecito.

My understanding is that Guede cannot receive a higher penalty than the one he currently has, so from Guede's PoV he has nothing to lose in seeking a retrial.

I am looking forward to Marasca-Bruno being examined closely by the superior Florence court.


I don't know what is in the 20-page petition, however, we do know the ground stated is 'contradiction' within the Marasca judgment. Will there be 'new evidence'? Who knows.

What are the contradictions? For a start, Rudy is named as an accessory with two others. Marasca has identified the only others at the scene to be Amanda and Raff, and herein lies the anomaly. There is no evidence, it is stated, they participated in the murder, despite covering up for Rudy, the accessory, and washing off Mez' blood, together with telling myriad lies and remaining 'strongly suspicious'. So, if the other perpetrators are not Raff and Amanda, and police are not looking for anyone else, it appears Rudy is an accessory to a non-existent perpetrator. The prosecution at no time pleaded Rudy was the sole perpetrator. No valid court found the burglary was genuine. Rudy was not charged with burglary. What hasn't been pleaded cannot be found.

No doubt Rudy will be hoping to be 'acquitted' and like Raff and Amanda, to line his pockets with publishing, tv and film deals. Then he will embark on a tour as an exoneree, and Kathleen Zellner will demand the toilet paper DNA be retested for age, as she will argue the poop predates the murder.

Perhaps the three can start up a folk group: Rudy, Raffy and Mandy, in the footsteps of Peter, Paul and Mary . A cover version of 'Puff the Magic Dragon' might be apposite. Pics will appear on social media of Raf, Rudy and Mandy holding up cards declaring, 'Avery is innocent'.

Zellner wins US$36m compo for Rudy.

 

[abaddon]

I am looking forward to Marasca-Bruno being examined closely by the superior Florence court.


I don't know what is in the 20-page petition, however, we do know the ground stated is 'contradiction' within the Marasca judgment. Will there be 'new evidence'? Who knows.

What are the contradictions? For a start, Rudy is named as an accessory with two others. Marasca has identified the only others at the scene to be Amanda and Raff, and herein lies the anomaly. There is no evidence, it is stated, they participated in the murder, despite covering up for Rudy, the accessory, and washing off Mez' blood, together with telling myriad lies and remaining 'strongly suspicious'. So, if the other perpetrators are not Raff and Amanda, and police are not looking for anyone else, it appears Rudy is an accessory to a non-existent perpetrator. The prosecution at no time pleaded Rudy was the sole perpetrator. No valid court found the burglary was genuine. Rudy was not charged with burglary. What hasn't been pleaded cannot be found.

No doubt Rudy will be hoping to be 'acquitted' and like Raff and Amanda, to line his pockets with publishing, tv and film deals. Then he will embark on a tour as an exoneree, and Kathleen Zellner will demand the toilet paper DNA be retested for age, as she will argue the poop predates the murder.

Perhaps the three can start up a folk group: Rudy, Raffy and Mandy, in the footsteps of Peter, Paul and Mary . A cover version of 'Puff the Magic Dragon' might be apposite. Pics will appear on social media of Raf, Rudy and Mandy holding up cards declaring, 'Avery is innocent'.

Zellner wins US$36m compo for Rudy.

Having stated that you have no clue what is in the petition, you proceed to tell us all what is in the 20 page petition.

That's good. Really, very, very good.

 

[Vixen]

Having stated that you have no clue what is in the petition, you proceed to tell us all what is in the 20 page petition.

That's good. Really, very, very good.

I don't know what the particulars are, but we do know the grounds.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen,
Do you believe it is, in principle, completely impossible to do poor forensic DNA work? Do you believe the possibility of contamination is a myth propagated by scientists? Why do you think laboratories develop rigorous protocols to get correct results which minimize the possibility of errors? Is it just for fun and they like to waste time and money?

It seems Steffanoni had far better protocols than Vecchiotti did, who, as Crini, Prosecutor, pointed out under oath, did not even have a thermometer in her fridge!!! Even a supermarket would be fined for that.

Vecchiotti admitted under oath there was no possiblilty of Stefanoni's labs being contaminated, yet she lies in the Netflix that it was. Contemptible.

Do you seriously think the Rome Forensic Laboratories do not know how to control against contamination?

 

[Vixen]

This piece was written last September, just after the release of the Netflix documentary.

Despite the piece's title ("Why the Amanda Knox Case Still Doesn't Make Any Sense: Inside a Shockingly Misogynistic Murder Investigation"), author Natalie Finn actually does lay out why this whole judicial charade makes sense.

http://www.eonline.com/ca/news/798815/why-the-amanda-knox-case-still-doesn-t-make-any-sense-inside-a-shockingly-misogynistic-murder-investigation

A sample.......

​

Crap journalism, Get their stuff from Marriott press releases or is written by a moron too lazy to do any proper research for themself and just simply lifts it direct from the Netflix commercial.

 

[Vixen]

It's almost like all of the stuff that doesn't make sense about the case is easily explainable by poor forensic work and Amanda and Raffaele weren't actually involved in a pagan sex orgy murder.

But that would mean all the world renowned independent forensic experts are right that Amanda and Raf are innocent? And that means the guilters are wrong and um, well let's be honest here, super crazy. I don't want to live in a world where forensic scientists know more forensic science than TJMK and PMF posters.

Independent forensic experts can only comment on the forensic issues they are directed to focus on. In other words, it is not their place to find anyone guilty or innocent. The Supreme Court exposed the 'independent' forensic witnesses ( a pathologist and an IT expert) as a couple of old frauds. The prosecution filed a complaint the pair were not independent at all. The carabinieri turned up at Vecchiotti hand over the DVD she and the defence had collaborated over. Vecchiotti ran to Hellmann to back her up. The crook was forced to issue a copy of the DVD to the prosecution. They were in the pay of the defense, they greeted the Raff defense teams with broard smiles and handshakes and were seen fraternising and dining with them during the hearing. Did you say 'INDEPENDENT'?