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Let's make America smart again

I don't think the title is a good title. You are implying that the people who vote for Trump were stupid. That's exactly the denigrating attitude from the elites towards ordinary people that cause them vote for Trump and not for Hillary. This 'We know it better then you' attitude is the main reason why people voted differently this time. Even when it's true that you are smarter, such an attitude will cause resistance.

You must think it this way: people sometimes cannot express why they do not want something. They cannot verbalise their underlying sadness, hurt, ... Underlying their negative attitude is something they want to communicate. There is some 'information' behind it, which you need to find out.

I believe in 'system thinking'. Within the system, some parts are giving feedback to the whole system, they want some focus on their problems.

This feedback, you try to filter out, is information that tells you something about the underlying needs of these people in order to be able to accept your politics.
Try to see behind their attitude and see the sadness or the hurt behind the behavior of negativity.
Talk with them. Try to find out what sadness is in their life and use this information to improve your politics.
 
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Sorry Marteen, but I do think people who supported Trump, for whatever reason, made an ignorant choice.

Either they were conned by the guy, or were naive enough to think putting an incompetent narcissist in charge of the country because they wanted to shake things up, would be peachy.

I am not an elite and this is a skeptic's forum, not a 'can't we all get along' forum. When half the voting public in this country doesn't know how to think critically about their vote for POTUS, there is a serious problem with critical thinking.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Sorry Marteen, but I do think people who supported Trump, for whatever reason, made an ignorant choice.

Either they were conned by the guy, or were naive enough to think putting an incompetent narcissist in charge of the country because they wanted to shake things up, would be peachy.

I am not an elite and this is a skeptic's forum, not a 'can't we all get along' forum. When half the voting public in this country doesn't know how to think critically about their vote for POTUS, there is a serious problem with critical thinking.
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Sadly, the non-critical thinkers were not all in the Dumpit camp.
"it's her turn"; "women good, men bad",- stuff like that.
 
Critical thinking implies that people's choices are rational. Science (psychology) shows us (with evidence) that people most of the time act irrational.

So you need to listen to them first and try to find out the information behind their negativity. What is the information you can see underneath this negativity?

You must be able to see through it.

And when you are open to listen carefully and take them seriously, you will have more chance to influence them. And then they will be more open for rational reasons.
 
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Maartenn100 said:
Critical thinking implies that people's choices are rational. Science (psychology) shows us (with evidence) that people most of the time act irrational.

So you need to listen to them first and try to find out the information behind their negativity. What is the information you can see underneath this negativity?

You must be able to see through it.

And when you are open to listen carefully and take them seriously, you will have more chance to influence them. And then they will be more open for rational reasons.
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I don't have to coddle emotional decision makers. I first joined the skeptical community with the goal of adding my drop of spreading critical thinking to the bucket.

It's time to get back to that effort.
 
Maartenn100 said:
Critical thinking implies that people's choices are rational. Science (psychology) shows us (with evidence) that people most of the time act irrational.

So you need to listen to them first and try to find out the information behind their negativity. What is the information you can see underneath this negativity?

You must be able to see through it.

And when you are open to listen carefully and take them seriously, you will have more chance to influence them. And then they will be more open for rational reasons.
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Yeah, I think that's the kind of question best answered by anthropologists.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't have to coddle emotional decision makers. I first joined the skeptical community with the goal of adding my drop of spreading critical thinking to the bucket.

It's time to get back to that effort.
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Yes, but why do you, as a critical thinker, not use your knowledge from science (psychology, sociology, antropology) to interprete what's happening in reality and chose your method based on science?
 
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Maartenn100 said:
Yes, but why do you, as a critical thinker, not use your knowledge from science (psychology, sociology, antropology) to interprete what's happening in reality and chose your method based on science?
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I know WTF is happening. I've been addressing it for more than a decade now.

Where we differ is in what to do about it. You seem to think what we need do is recognize the issue and work with it. I recognize the issue all too well. My idea is to reassess the problem.

Looks like a knowledge deficit, impart knowledge, and get no effect.

You don't just keep addressing the knowledge deficit, you go back to the drawing board and reassess the problem. If not a knowledge deficit, then it is a barrier to learning said knowledge.

You would throw your hands up and say, 'oh well, this is the best we can do.' I would say, 'what is that barrier to learning and how can we address it?'
 
LSSBB said:
Critical thinking is only part of the problem. There is a problem with understanding that we really are equal, no matter how we look and who and how we worshop, or even worship at all. Even if there is no profession of privelage by certain groups, there is certainly a difference in treatment. Let me expound a bit.

White, black, yellow, should not make a difference. Yet black neighborhoods are called "bad neighborhoods", and black politicians get voted for by blacks, whites by whites, and so on. Even socially - interracial dating is rare, as are interracial friendships it seems. In effect, we treat each other based on superficialities, whether we admit it or not.

Allah, God, YHWH, Vishnu, no-God - should not make a difference. And it does. Atheists can't get elected. Muslims are suspicious by default.

Basically, we have a severe kindness and respect deficiency in America. Teach Critical Thinking? You bet. Don't hang your hat on it solving the divisions in American Society, however. Teach kindness and respect to all people also - and whatever else needs to be taught to repair divisiveness.
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I suggest to you that it is your ability to use critical thinking which leads you to conclude that "we really are all equal". You will find a great deal of argument over this conclusion, all based on fallacious reasoning, falling prey to implicit bias, and not understanding human cognitive biases.

I venture to guess that close to half the US population will not agree that "we really are all equal", even though you and I see this conclusion as a certainty. You and I reach the same conclusion using our reasoning ability, not because it is what we have been told by someone on the Internet.

You can can teach civility and kindness, even in preschool, sure, but eventually, when the child can think for him/her self, they will be easily mislead by a charismatic liar, unless they understand cognitive biases, implicit biases, and logical fallacies.
 
lomiller said:
Critical thinking is important, the real issue the US faces is understanding reliable vs unreliable information sources. Back when people go most of their information from newspapers etc, sources were vetted even if you didn’t do it yourself. The Internet allows people to search for sources that tell them what they want to hear and consequently the “facts” they base their decisions on are frequently produced with the express purpose of directing them to specific conclusion.
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Evaluating the reliability of a source of information is a critical thinking skill, is it not? The fact that we listen harder and remember better those things the confirm our established beliefs is a known cognitive bias, which we should all be on guard against.
My point is exactly that an solid early education that makes cognitive biases and logical fallacies clear to everyone would be an inoculation against this very problem.
 
Changing people's minds is always more difficult than just agreeing to everything they already think. That is why populists always have a better shot at being elected than rationalists.
But we know from experience that populist governments achieve nothing and possibly destroy prior progress.

Under Trump, the US will not make any progress where it counts, not in education, trade or innovation. Those are all areas that provide no short-term gains and are therefore undesirable from a populist perspective.
But short-term gains often come at the expense of long-term progress.
 
Best evidence for the Trump voters being braindead.

Mike Pence, soon to be the Vice-President of the most powerful nation on earth, is a creationist who regards evolution as just a theory and not a fact:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv1v-ziuSFg

No wonder the 21st will be "China's Century" :rolleyes:

Not only is he going to the VP, but he is now heading Trump's transition team and will choose all cabinet members and senior staff, including at the Department of Education. There are rumours that creationists are asking him to impose a moratorium on the teaching of evolution within President Trump's first 100 days.
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A friend of mine who is Jewish (and has either MS or PhD in Computer Science), voted for Trump because he is convinced that Muslim immigration and the "creeping Sharia" are a far greater threat than, well, anything else. Basically, he bought completely into Mark Steyn's "Eurabia" -- that once a certain portion (20-25%) of population is Muslim, they start ignoring the law of the country they are in because everyone else is too afraid of them, and basically set up Sharia. And he sees Trump, Le Pen, etc. as the only ones who are standing up to this menace.
 
LarianLeQuella said:
Sadly, it just seems Americans especially, and humans in general, prefer willful ignorance. :(:boggled:
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true for an awful lot here. Will be loads of fun when the ******** find out exactly how little trumpf and his butt boys really think of them and how much of nothing they will receive for getting him sort of elected. On the happy side, they may try to crucify or hang it. I will not be unhappy at the result however it goes if they do.
 
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