Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VII

[Belz...]

I know you dislike it when I interrupt a Winning The Internet volley to talk about the ball, but I'll address your question if it's the one it think it is: all hangings in trees are taken to be lynchings of blacks in American cultural context.

<snip>

Your personal cultural argument of incredulity has now been curbstomped with Emic perspective. Deal.

Thank you for your (snipped) response.

However, I would appreciate it if you stopped thinking that someone having an argument, or having a hard time understanding one, means that he's trying to "win the internet" or is being deliberately obtuse. It's insulting and unproductive. Perhaps for an American this is super-obvious, but it isn't to me, okay? Deal.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Thank you for your (snipped) response.

However, I would appreciate it if you stopped thinking that someone having an argument, or having a hard time understanding one, means that he's trying to "win the internet" or is being deliberately obtuse. It's insulting and unproductive. Perhaps for an American this is super-obvious, but it isn't to me, okay? Deal.

My beef is that you use verbal bullying techniques like trying to back someone into an all-or-nothing proposition as in this point. So even if it's true, that more or less all hangings in trees are taken to be lynchings by more or less all Americans, the combative nature of your interrogation puts people on the defensive because it looks like you're setting up a gotcha trap of unnuanced binary thinking.


{edit to add}
Now, instead of snipping, go back and read my longer answer several times then ask specific follow up questions in a non confrontational manner. Or not, and live with your current level of understanding.

 

[The Don]

Here we are a week away from the election.

According to fivethirtyeight.com, Trump is approaching 30% likelihood of winning in the "Polls Plus" model and his upward trajectory is far steeper than the last time his chances took a dive in August. My hope that his numbers would recover but too slowly for November 8 is looking increasingly forlorn.

It's clear that Hillary has been badly damaged by the emails and the mere suggestion that there *may* be something on Weiner's PC is enough to narrow the polling gap - on what should be a poisonous candidate significantly.

Has the U.S. public forgotten about:

- Trump University
- The "Mexican" judge
- Attacking a Gold Star family
- Fatshaming Miss Universe
- Trump using charity money to pay fines, build fountains and bu picture for himself
- Trump admitting sexually assaulting women

Are the U.S. electorate so blind that they will ignore many, many reasons not to vote for one candidate because of one possible, but not proven, reason not to vote for another ?

 

[Belz...]

My beef is that you use verbal bullying techniques like trying to back someone into an all-or-nothing proposition as in this point. So even if it's true, that more or less all hangings in trees are taken to be lynchings by more or less all Americans, the combative nature of your interrogation puts people on the defensive because it looks like you're setting up a gotcha trap of unnuanced binary thinking.

Verbal bullying? What?

If there's something I don't do, it's binary thinking.

 

[Ladewig]

I hope you told him that Donald would actually make it worse than Hillary.

Nothing would sway him from his decision.

While I am often befuddled by the motives of Trump supporters, painting an entire class of voters as irrational and illogical seems out of place on a skeptic's forum, and I think misses the point entirely.

Go to right leaning forums, and you're as likely to see: "By now everyone should have realized that nobody supports Hillary for rational or logical reasons."

As obviously misguided, IMHO.

Last week, I was wondering if the Trump-could-launch-nukes people were greater than or less than the Clinton's-immigration-policies-could-let-the-next-9/11-terrorist-into-the-country people. I was not able to determine an answer.

.............

It is a Trump thread. Please take the lynching discussion to another thread or simply let it drop. It is OK if someone on the Internet is wrong.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Verbal bullying? What?

If there's something I don't do, it's binary thinking.

Obviously you and I have further work to do in the future.

For now, are you willing to accept that to Americans a Trump supporter with a couple of nonspecific-person hanged man yard decorations looks like a racist ass to a vast majority of us?

 

[Tony Stark]

Here we are a week away from the election.

According to fivethirtyeight.com, Trump is approaching 30% likelihood of winning in the "Polls Plus" model and his upward trajectory is far steeper than the last time his chances took a dive in August. My hope that his numbers would recover but too slowly for November 8 is looking increasingly forlorn.

It's clear that Hillary has been badly damaged by the emails and the mere suggestion that there *may* be something on Weiner's PC is enough to narrow the polling gap - on what should be a poisonous candidate significantly.

I'm not convinced it has narrowed that much. 538 is still the big outlier.

Has the U.S. public forgotten about:

- Trump University
- The "Mexican" judge
- Attacking a Gold Star family
- Fatshaming Miss Universe
- Trump using charity money to pay fines, build fountains and bu picture for himself
- Trump admitting sexually assaulting women

Are the U.S. electorate so blind that they will ignore many, many reasons not to vote for one candidate because of one possible, but not proven, reason not to vote for another ?

This election proves beyond question to me that most Republicans are stupid, delusional, or complete pieces of ****. Donald is by far the worst candidate ever yet the large majority of Republicans are sticking with him.

 

[Stacko]

Here we are a week away from the election.

According to fivethirtyeight.com, Trump is approaching 30% likelihood of winning in the "Polls Plus" model and his upward trajectory is far steeper than the last time his chances took a dive in August. My hope that his numbers would recover but too slowly for November 8 is looking increasingly forlorn.

It's clear that Hillary has been badly damaged by the emails and the mere suggestion that there *may* be something on Weiner's PC is enough to narrow the polling gap - on what should be a poisonous candidate significantly.

Has the U.S. public forgotten about:

- Trump University
- The "Mexican" judge
- Attacking a Gold Star family
- Fatshaming Miss Universe
- Trump using charity money to pay fines, build fountains and bu picture for himself
- Trump admitting sexually assaulting women

Are the U.S. electorate so blind that they will ignore many, many reasons not to vote for one candidate because of one possible, but not proven, reason not to vote for another ?

The charity issue and the university are the only things that aren't consistent with mainstream Republican positions. I mean build a wall to keep Mexicans out, banning Muslims and punishing women for abortions which will be made illegal were positions he took to win the Republican primary. Xenophobia and misogyny were key to his victory.

 

[Tony Stark]

Nothing would sway him from his decision.

True. Republicans don't care about things like facts. Even if you could could convince him that Donald would be worse for the national debt than Hillary, he would surely invent a new reason for supporting him.

 

[Ladewig]

Has the U.S. public forgotten about:

- Trump University
- The "Mexican" judge
- Attacking a Gold Star family
- Fatshaming Miss Universe
- Trump using charity money to pay fines, build fountains and bu picture for himself
- Trump admitting sexually assaulting women

As I said upthread, great numbers of Americans have values and morals that lead them to conclude many of the things you mention are unimportant in selecting a candidate.

Are the U.S. electorate so blind that they will ignore many, many reasons not to vote for one candidate because of one possible, but not proven, reason not to vote for another ?

As was mentioned upthread, there are right wing message boards that are asking the virtually the same question.

 

[quadraginta]

You appear to be too thoroughly invested in being Right On The Internet. I say this because you appear to be disagreeing with my Anthropology report.

A skeleton in a tree is a different symbolic construct than a dressed body. The semiotic understanding for Americans of hanged skeletons has to do with pirate movies and graveyards generally.

Or maybe Halloween?

Unlike dark effigies attired in stereotypical urban black street clothes.

I disagreed with it because I don't agree with your anthropological analysis.

I thought it was simplistic and limited.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I'm not convinced it has narrowed that much. 538 is still the big outlier.

538 correlates states a lot more than other sites - this is functionally equivalent to correlating polls in different states such that their errors are not independent of each other. What you get is mostly boring "Clinton wins by comfortable margins", and then big blowouts by either candidate in the tails.

But this hinging on two things - the polls are overall quite off on some factor in the right direction, AND their models account for all of the negative effects the person of Trump has on the race (which is a big unknown since there is no historical precedent).

 

[Belz...]

Obviously you and I have further work to do in the future.

I would like that. I'd hate to have such a despicable reputation, and I usually enjoy your contributions.

For now, are you willing to accept that to Americans a Trump supporter with a couple of nonspecific-person hanged man yard decorations looks like a racist ass to a vast majority of us?

I accepted it right off the bat. I was simply asking about the why, and nothing to differenced with Canadian culture.

 

[Belz...]

Now, instead of snipping, go back and read my longer answer several times then ask specific follow up questions in a non confrontational manner. Or not, and live with your current level of understanding.

You know, this sort of condescending, adversarial approach by you is kind of ironic given the accusations you've leveled against me, don't you think? It's hard to seek some sort of reconciliation with someone who engages in exactly the behaviour they decry in others. Specks and beams and all that.

 

[Tony Stark]

People are saying that Donald Trump can't read.

It is a Samantha Bee segment. She is amazing.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Time to take the lynching to a different tree I think.

 

[Belz...]

Time to take the lynching to a different tree I think.

You're right, of course. Apologies for making it this long. I even forgot that this wasn't a completely different thread altogether.

I've reported my post and asked for a split.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm not convinced it has narrowed that much. 538 is still the big outlier.

I wouldn't even call it that. 538 is fully admitting it's being bullish with it's prediction and is all but inviting us to read between the lines.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...r-model-is-more-bullish-than-others-on-trump/

 

[Agatha]

I have split the posts about lynching and the cultural significance of hanging effigies in trees to another thread. while leaving the posts focused on the Halloween display of the (possible) Trump supporter and its effects on the campaign in this thread.

Since splitting threads is more of a chainsaw operation than a scalpel cut, I may have left some posts in this thread that should have been moved, or moved some posts that would have been better remaining here. Please let me know if I need to do any further work on separating the strands of conversation.

Posted By: Agatha

 

[rustypouch]

An interesting hypothesis, which I cannot discount, is that Trump is illiterate.