Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VII

[quadraginta]

I don't believe the sign is on another person's property. Note the telephone circuit box sticking out of the lawn. Those are usually placed on the property line between properties.

As I said earlier, the sign is irrelevant. A red herring at most.

The display needs no Trump sign to project its message. It stands on its own quite handily.

Trump didn't create these people. He may be enabling them. Some sort of ugly, perverted codependency. Giving them aid and comfort while they sing his praises.

But they've been around all along. He's just picking their rocks up.

 

[quadraginta]

So fervent denial and downplaying.

If you wish to address my reasons for withholding judgment, go ahead. These coy insinuations do not advance the conversation.

I didn't see anything the least bit coy about that statement. The meaning was very clear.

(Hint: "denial" is a clue.)

 

[phiwum]

"Reasonable" isn't the word that comes to mind.

"Facade" is one of the more charitable ones.

This is the second or third post in which you've accused me of being disingenuous, simply because I don't see convincing enough evidence to accuse this man of overt racism.

Why not let me in on my secret motive?

 

[quadraginta]

What are the odds that Donald himself was involved with the secret communication to that Moscow bank? As much as I hate him, I think Manafort probably did it without telling him.

The standards for the investigation of culpability and complicity regarding email matters have been established by the Republican Party for the past several years.

I see no reason why they should not be applied at least as thoroughly in this instance.

Unless it's because Trump is running as a Republican.

 

[Bob001]

Back in 1996, Trump showed up uninvited to the ribbon-cutting ceremony of a nursery for kids with AIDS. Trump hadn't donated a dime to the facility, but that didn't stop him from jumping up onto the stage with the people who had donated. He even took the seat of a major donor, forcing the guy to stand in the crowd.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/trump-often-stole-credit-for-other-peoples-charity-when-he-actually-donated-it-was-to-benefit-himself?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+NP_Top_Stories+(National+Post+-+Top+Stories)


Classy.

Steve S

I just note that the story is from the Washington Post, which has been doing extensive, aggressive reporting about Trump's foundation and his purported charitable contributions. Jeff Bezos' heart seems to be in the right place.

 

[quadraginta]

This is the second or third post in which you've accused me of being disingenuous, simply because I don't see convincing enough evidence to accuse this man of overt racism.

Why not let me in on my secret motive?

No. It isn't "simply" that.

You have demonstrated a peculiar willingness to put on your skeptic's face and leap to this 'reasonable' rolleyes style of defense whenever responding to subjects of a certain political bent.

Others, not so much.

Your history precedes you and is not limited to this one conversation.

And your almost pathological eagerness here to ignore the obvious simply perpetuates this record.

 

[phiwum]

I didn't see anything the least bit coy about that statement. The meaning was very clear.

(Hint: "denial" is a clue.)

That statement did not even address a single point I made. You cannot handwave an argument away simply by claiming that it is denial or downplaying. You have to address the actual claims.

The fact that we're in the politics cesspool doesn't mean that we abandon the basic principles of critical reasoning.

 

[phiwum]

No. It isn't "simply" that.

You have demonstrated a peculiar willingness to put on your skeptic's face and leap to this 'reasonable' rolleyes style of defense whenever responding to subjects of a certain political bent.

Others, not so much.

Your history precedes you and is not limited to this one conversation.

And your almost pathological eagerness here to ignore the obvious simply perpetuates this record.

Sorry, but are you accusing me of being a closet Trump supporter?

It is a laughable accusation. You won't find a single word from me supporting Trump, nor any hint of partisan GOP politics. I am an independent, leaning Democrat for the past five or so presidential elections at least. Donald Trump is undeniably the worst major party candidate in my lifetime and perhaps in the history of the nation.

Or perhaps you're suggesting that I'm a closet racist? If so, please feel free to quote any post I've ever made defending racism. Indeed, not a damned thing I've said in this thread or elsewhere could reasonably be read that way.

The fact is that reasonable persons can disagree over whether these photos of hanging effigies are sufficient evidence of overt racism, or merely evidence of the lesser offense of gross insensitivity. Since I am unsure which of these is more likely, I have withheld judgment.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

The fact is that reasonable persons can disagree over whether these photos of hanging effigies are sufficient evidence of overt racism, or merely evidence of the lesser offense of gross insensitivity. Since I am unsure which of these is more likely, I have withheld judgment.

No. Reasonable people can't.

You don't need to keep your mind so open that your brains fall out.

 

[Ladewig]

And this Florida man's First Amendment right to erect his display is not being challenged here.

The fact that it is disgusting, vile, repugnant, or even evil and unforgivable is being pointed out.

That's free speech, too. Not a denial of his rights.

Works for me.

Then again, I never said his rights were being violated.
I was just indirectly responding to a post that mentioned that there are no laws against this Florida cretin displaying such stuff.

More importantly, I have no idea why we have been discussing it for three pages. We knew for a long time that many white nationalists openly support Trump. We knew a long time ago that Trump was hesitant to denounce a KKK official, and that if his biographers and other sources are to be believed, has a long history of being unequivocally racists.

Measuring how racist one Florida supporter is has nothing to do with the election. He is not going to bring new people on board the Trump train. It is quite unlikely that a hard core racist would see the display and say "apparently people fond of lynching minorities are in favor of Mr. Trump. I was going to stay home and not vote, but now I know that the Trump campaign welcomes racists; I will vote for Trump."

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I just note that the story is from the Washington Post, which has been doing extensive, aggressive reporting about Trump's foundation and his purported charitable contributions. ...

What's your point? He's a fake philanthropist, the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[Ladewig]

Those are some of the purposes, yes.

Yet more would be speech that -popular or not- is critical of public officials, exposes abusive acts of powerful interests, or impacts public sentiment in a way that creates trouble for them. I would say that there is probably a fair amount of correlation between my list and yours. I would also say that some of that is because public officials and powerful interests have ways of spinning the things on my list into the things on your list.

I readily accept your list and will consider it the next time I talk about the function of the First Amendment.

 

[Ladewig]

What's your point? He's a fake philanthropist, the evidence is overwhelming.

Yes. Over the weekend I spent 40minutes talking to a Trump supporter who I have know for 25 years. He is not completely happy with Trump. He acknowledges that Trump doesn't know when to keep quite and that Trump sometimes says very stupid things.

He ended up at camp Trump mostly because he supports the party. The rest of his decision was based on his values which led him to make conclusions that were the opposite of the conclusions I reached by applying my values. I brought up the fake philanthropy and he said so what. Neither the amount of money a candidate donates nor a discrepancy between the amount he donates and the amount he says he donates should in any way be relevant to choosing a candidate.

Likewise, he thought the tax return was irrelevant. He asserted that there was nothing that we needed to see.

His primary, but not sole, concern was the national debt and he was confident that Clinton might raise it to dangerous levels.

To him, Trump is not a perfect candidate, but he is good enough. Especially when slated against Clinton.

 

[TofuFighter]

I don't believe the sign is on another person's property. Note the telephone circuit box sticking out of the lawn. Those are usually placed on the property line between properties.

It was this update that I got the information from

Dummies Lynched Next to a Trump Sign for Halloween in Kendall UPDATED

After publication, two people called New Times and said the sign and the display were in adjoining yards. Neither would give a name. One of them, who said he hung the display, asserted that he was just making it "scary for Halloween" and that it's "not racist, nothing political." He declined to say whom he supports for president. The other, who said the Trump/Pence sign was hers, threatened to sue. "It's not true," she said. Asked what was untrue, she said, "The picture, the whole thing."

/aside - the lady sure does seem to be fluent in Trump logic.
It could well be that the sign belongs to effigy guy. If you haven't looked at the pictures in this article yet, maybe you can make more sense of the sign positioning than I can.

I'm not sure it's that relevant anymore. The discussion about the racist (or not) nature of the display should have run its course in this thread now. The Trump camp has some overt racists in it. Not news.
In the process of looking for more information, i found news reports of effigies being hung of both Palin and Trump by Obama/Clinton supporters respectively. Seems to be fashionable during elections.

 

[a_unique_person]

Trump and Russia, again, courtesy of the FBI.

Washington: The word "explosive" has been rendered meaningless in this US presidential election – so I'll just state this baldly. The FBI is investigating a deliberate, years-long Russian effort by which Moscow co-opted Donald Trump, and the Republican Party candidate had, until very recently, a super-secret internet server, which carried heavy, two-way traffic between his Manhattan tower and a Russian bank with close ties to the Kremlin.

 

[Foolmewunz]

It was this update that I got the information from





/aside - the lady sure does seem to be fluent in Trump logic.
It could well be that the sign belongs to effigy guy. If you haven't looked at the pictures in this article yet, maybe you can make more sense of the sign positioning than I can.

I'm not sure it's that relevant anymore. The discussion about the racist (or not) nature of the display should have run its course in this thread now. The Trump camp has some overt racists in it. Not news.
In the process of looking for more information, i found news reports of effigies being hung of both Palin and Trump by Obama/Clinton supporters respectively. Seems to be fashionable during elections.

One of the TV stations has an aerial shot of the guy putting out the "It's only Halloween" sign(or whatever it said). He seems to be coming from the house to the left, not the one with all the jack-o-lanterns. The question is where the Trump sign is. On the property of the left house or the right house.

Not that it changes the display being racist. The fact that he left it up, wouldn't respond to the community office and put up the "lighten up" sign seems to indicate that he's at least trying to get a rise out of someone. If y'all want to bend over backwards and say he's just bursting balloons, go for it. I'm of the distinct impression it was a thought-out racist gesture.

 

[TofuFighter]

One of the TV stations has an aerial shot of the guy putting out the "It's only Halloween" sign(or whatever it said). He seems to be coming from the house to the left, not the one with all the jack-o-lanterns. The question is where the Trump sign is. On the property of the left house or the right house.

Not that it changes the display being racist. The fact that he left it up, wouldn't respond to the community office and put up the "lighten up" sign seems to indicate that he's at least trying to get a rise out of someone. If y'all want to bend over backwards and say he's just bursting balloons, go for it. I'm of the distinct impression it was a thought-out racist gesture.

I don't have much doubt that it's deliberate, but it's necessary to make assumptions to arrive at that conclusion. There doesn't seem to be anybody suggesting that this is an innocent act on his part. The discussion about the display should probably move elsewhere on the forum if anyone wants to continue it.

To me, it looks like some of his more brazen supporters have taken their cue from Trump and thought of something controversial to say or do to attract attention to themselves. How long before effigy guy explicitly translates his sign into "you're all being way too PC about this"?

 

[Tony Stark]

His primary, but not sole, concern was the national debt and he was confident that Clinton might raise it to dangerous levels.

I hope you told him that Donald would actually make it worse than Hillary.

 

[catsmate]

Newsweek article: Donald Trump’s companies have systematically destroyed or hidden thousands of emails, digital records and paper documents demanded in official proceedings, often in defiance of court orders.

But Hillary.......

 

[catsmate]

The Donald refusing to pay contractors after they've done the work? Not a fine upstanding businessman like Trump.

That'd be the same Trump that:
1. In 1996 gatecrashed (he wasn't invited) a benefit for children with AIDS, sat on the stage, posed for photos, and then left without donating anything.
2. "Donated" more than a quater-of-a-million dollars (US$264,631, the largest donation ever made by the Trump Foundation) to fix up a fountain outside the windows of the Plaza Hotel in New York. Trump owns the Plaza Hotel.
3. Gave $1,000 to the German-American Hall of Fame after being inducted. He charges them more than twenty thousand dollars for rental of space at Trump Tower for the ceremony.
4. After agreeing to appear in a music video for the band Precious Metal in exchange for a $10,000 donation to charity he then (after recording) demanded a "Trump kind of donation" of $250,000 instead. The band refused and re-shot the video, which Trump then publicly criticised.
5. After a chess team's bake sale came up $5,000 short of its goal while Trump was serving as "principal for a day" at a school in the Bronx he gave the students a fake million-dollar bill. Then he gave them $200 in real money and drove away in a limousine.

Classy.