Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VII

Stacko said:
Why? He thoroughly embarrassed himself three times already. If there was a fourth scheduled, it should be called off due to a mercy rule.
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Can't we just call the AS dinner the fourth debate, and agree he got beaten bloody four times and call an end to it?
 
Foolmewunz said:
It's astonishing the bending-over-backwards to give this turd a break. You folks want to argue that Birtherism isn't racist? Fine. Or that his "settlement" with the DoJ was based on "business, just business"? Okay, I'll grant you that. You're wrong, but you can make rhetorical hay out of it if you wish.

Please spin the following:

“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

This was a former Trump exec quoting him. He denied it ("I love denying things") but then in an interview with Playboy said that the stuff he wrote about me is probably true.

Even if it's a variation of what he said, Trump's admitting to having stereotyped, with ugly stereotypes, two different minorities. How much more racist can you get?
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I notice marplots has yet to reply to my post or anyone else's. I'll take that has he recognizes there is overwhelming evidence Trump is a racist.
 
This is rich:
Donald Trump has long been one of this city's top figures in real estate, affixing his name — invariably in gold — to the marquees of more than a dozen Manhattan buildings.

But as his polarizing campaign for president has turned a segment of the population against him, home has become an uncomfortable place for some. At several Trump buildings, residents are quietly petitioning to get rid of his name.

"I used to tell people I lived in Trump Place. Now I say I live at 66th and Riverside Boulevard," said Sandra Brod, 74, a retiree waiting for a friend at a park bench outside her building one recent afternoon. "He has a mouth like a sewer."
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Tony Stark said:
If Donald didn't want the media to write bad stories on him, he shouldn't have run for President.
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Exactly.
After Obama was elected, Trump spent seven years talking **** about him. How stupid (or how mentally ill) would Trump have to be to not understand that the same thing would happen to him when he entered the political arena?!


What a whiney little bitch.
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I wish that were mentioned more in the media.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I notice marplots has yet to reply to my post or anyone else's. I'll take that has he recognizes there is overwhelming evidence Trump is a racist.
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You mean was right?
I missed the bit where it makes much of a difference, unless the pivot issue for any particular voter is going to be racism.

I have no idea if it really matters in this election at all. That's a question for the pollsters. I can't remember it being an issue in previous presidential elections, but I admit I wasn't paying close attention. It could also be that previous presidents weren't racist, although statistically that doesn't seem possible.

I don't feel any onus to defend Trump, especially on racism grounds. It's not illegal to be a racist, it's reprehensible. Kind of like the charge of letch. If Trump can keep his hands to himself while president, the sins in his heart don't amount to much.

Character issues are a proxy. We take our best guess at what someone is like as a person and use that to try and predict their behavior. It doesn't work very well. Trump's racism doesn't seem to have impaired him much, so either he manages to suppress it, or there's enough background racism in the country that it doesn't interfere.
 
Since racism has bubbled up in the thread, I'll use it as a stand-in for other single-issues. Here's an outline (I'm sure I missed some) of attitudes and beliefs available to the electorate which touch on racism:

1) Donald Trump is a racist...
___a) "Plainly, the evidence shows he's a racist. I cannot vote for a racist. Job done; vote cast."
___b) "DT is a racist and I am too. About time we had a candidate who recognized the pernicious evil embodied in mixing with mud peoples. Job done;vote cast."
___c) "DT is a racist, but I'm not. However, I support the immigration/trade policies informed by his racism for other reasons (e.g., economics)."
___d) "DT is a racist and this drives his immigration policies, policies I do not support because they too are racist."
___e) "DT's racism may have generated his stance on immigration and trade, but I oppose those policies for economic/moral/other reasons no matter how they arise."
___f) "DT is a racist but he's managed to function well enough anyhow. He knows the lines he can't cross."
___g) "DT is a racist, but that flaw is overwhelmed by the flaws in his opponent. Job done; vote cast."

2) Donald Trump is not a racist...
___a) "DT is a salesman and will say whatever he thinks his current audience wants to hear. His comments on other things reflect this and evidence of racism is just DT talking the usual BS."
___b) "DT is not a racist in the traditional sense. The worst that can be said is he's a product of his generation with values set 50 years ago. What we might call the 'soft racism' of his 70-year-old peers."
___c) "DT is not a racist and the charges against him stem from his political opponents mining a four-decade career and cherry picking."
___d) "DT is not a racist and is only pandering to the racist wing of the Republican party to get votes. He's saying what he needs to say to win."

3) Don't know/don't care...
___a) "DT may or may not be a racist, I can't tell because I'm only getting second and third-hand information from political opponents."
___b) "Who knows if he's a racist? It doesn't matter to me because any overtly racist move by a president will get quashed by Congress, the courts, and society at large. So it doesn't matter."
___c) "These people all suck and I'm not going to vote anyhow. I'll be overjoyed when the election news cycle finally ends."

Have I complicated it enough?
 
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marplots said:
Since racism has bubbled up in the thread, I'll use it as a stand-in for other single-issues. Here's an outline (I'm sure I missed some) of attitudes and beliefs available to the electorate which touch on racism:


Have I complicated it enough?
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Occam is turning in his grave.
 
Babbylonian said:
It's the latter. Hillary would gain nothing from agreeing to a "last minute" (3 weeks from the election probably qualifies, though it certainly wouldn't be impossible) debate and would probably lose from doing so. The disruption of her schedule that will only become tighter between now and the election would be a much bigger problem than any BS Trump tries to whip up accusing her of being chicken.

If I was advising Hillary, I'd probably tell her to say that an additional debate is pointless because it would take 3 debate wins for Trump just to catch up. :D
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100 percent correct. But Hillary doesn't need the advice. She knows she has a double digit lead. No need to give Trump an opportunity to catch up. (not that it would help) All she has to say is that 4 and a half hours was plenty for the American people to learn who has both the temperament and is qualified to lead.
 
If anyone was under the illusion that this disaster area of a presidential election, and most especially the accusations of rigging from Trump is no big deal:

Ugly US election race a poor ad for democracy in China

"It's the most entertaining campaign ever and the essence of American politics is entertainment."
The view of one 19-year-old Chinese student watching the US presidential race from Beijing.
He's not the only one laughing. Whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump wins on 8 November, the Chinese Communist Party believes it is already a winner.
For decades it has said that American democracy is a sham, rigged by and for a narrow elite. Now the Republican candidate for the White House says the same.
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Garrison said:
If anyone was under the illusion that this disaster area of a presidential election, and most especially the accusations of rigging from Trump is no big deal:

Ugly US election race a poor ad for democracy in China
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He also gives comfort to African dictators.

To opposition figures in Africa, and in other parts of the world that lack the 240-year U.S. history of peaceful transitions of power, Trump's assertion that November's U.S. presidential election will be "rigged", and his declaration that he may not accept the outcome, are dangerous words.

"Donald Trump is a gift to all tin-pot dictators on the African continent. He is giving currency and legitimacy to rigging because if it can exist in America, it can exist anywhere," Biti said.

"He has no idea what he's talking about, absolutely no idea," said Biti, who speaks from the experience of three election defeats to Mugabe, a 92-year-old ex-guerrilla who has run Zimbabwe since independence in 1980. "It makes us cross because in Africa there's real election rigging."

Long-serving rulers who have faced U.S. criticism in the past are already using Trump's remarks to counter Washington's pro-democracy message.
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**** Donald Trump and all of his followers.
 
Foolmewunz said:
It's astonishing the bending-over-backwards to give this turd a break. You folks want to argue that Birtherism isn't racist? Fine. Or that his "settlement" with the DoJ was based on "business, just business"? Okay, I'll grant you that. You're wrong, but you can make rhetorical hay out of it if you wish.

Please spin the following:

“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

This was a former Trump exec quoting him. He denied it ("I love denying things") but then in an interview with Playboy said that the stuff he wrote about me is probably true.

Even if it's a variation of what he said, Trump's admitting to having stereotyped, with ugly stereotypes, two different minorities. How much more racist can you get?
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If that's roughly accurate, then it's good evidence of racism.
 
Tony Stark said:
LOL
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He's in his own fantasy land. Requesting oversampling in internal polls, in 2008, is not making up polls. It's ensuring you get a larger sample of minority populations that one or two outliers doesn't throw your numbers off like what happened to the USC tracking poll. If only there was someone on Trump's staff who could explain this to him.
 
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dudalb said:
I wish you Euros would remember one thing:If the US goes down,it will take Europe with it.
And I get the feeling you really do not like private enterprise very much.....
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Therefore, it behooves all on both sides of the Atlantic to head off the decline into authoritarianism. As for private enterprise, there is nothing in the post quoted to indicate your conclusion. I think you confuse a level, common playing field for all with something entirely different.

On Management. Off topic for thread.
Since I'm in a good mood, I'll give you a hint about managing Fortune 500 projects: try a corporate-wide change initiative, and months later all you will see is a huge bill, and many employees now even more skeptical about top management. The trick to effective continuous improvement in large and small enterprises is that of focusing solely on the core elements of what most needs change, then either considering the project a wrap, or repeating it downstream using lessons learned, targeting the next worst issue. Usually one aligns people, processes and tools during such an initiative, with the emphasis depending on circumstance.

Now take that to government, and recall the many failed efforts at system overhaul, say, the Paperwork Reduction Act... been on the books for decades, to little avail. The approach a real business person would take, one who was not a scam artist in flipping properties and fleecing coinvestors, would involve selecting the most frequent or heaviest load processes in each government agency, and working only on streamlining this low-hanging fruit, including the repeal of ancient unworkable legislation if any is on the books, and redesign of the regulations. Over time and after iterations, you get repeated focused improvements, step-by-step. Been there and done that on several continents.

Checking into a hotel was, years back, a bureaucratic nightmare compared to today. It is a process that must respect internal rules and prevailing legislation. Yet the process is today far faster and easier because people, processes and tools have all been tweaked. BUT the "regulations" were not thrown out willy-nilly. That, in a nutshell, is exactly what Republican whiners about government and regulations have either never grasped, or willfully ignored out of self-interest or parallel agendas.

Insincere reform efforts spouted as "common sense" solutions by politicians financed by wealthy clients are rarely, if ever, anything more than a thinly disguised effort to give free and unfettered rein to capital, an entirely different proposition, and one having very little to do with actually reforming and running a functioning government.
 
marplots said:
You mean was right?
I missed the bit where it makes much of a difference, unless the pivot issue for any particular voter is going to be racism.

I have no idea if it really matters in this election at all. That's a question for the pollsters. I can't remember it being an issue in previous presidential elections, but I admit I wasn't paying close attention. It could also be that previous presidents weren't racist, although statistically that doesn't seem possible.

I don't feel any onus to defend Trump, especially on racism grounds. It's not illegal to be a racist, it's reprehensible. Kind of like the charge of letch. If Trump can keep his hands to himself while president, the sins in his heart don't amount to much.

Character issues are a proxy. We take our best guess at what someone is like as a person and use that to try and predict their behavior. It doesn't work very well. Trump's racism doesn't seem to have impaired him much, so either he manages to suppress it, or there's enough background racism in the country that it doesn't interfere.
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Is this a concession, there is evidence Trump is racist, or just a moved goal post? Are you seriously claiming Trump was a racist but there's no evidence he still is?

As to whether it matters, I think it matters a lot. We are talking about the POTUS here, not the neighborhood watch captain.
 
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