Trump runs for POTUS/ Trumped Up! Part VII

[halleyscomet]

Conway is out there trying hard to sell two messages, Clinton is corrupt and the news media is unfair to Trump because they are harping on Trump's assaulting women instead of the quid pro quos of Clinton's that didn't happen.

I can see the logic. They probably suspect Hillary is unlikely to accept a change to another debate. If she does accept Donald gets another chance to try and bully her, which is the only way he can grok the concept of a "debate." If she refuses he gets to paint her as elitist, aloof and scared of Trump.

 

[acbytesla]

Did we ever figure that out?

HIMSELF.

 

[Babbylonian]

I don't see any reason to distinguish between discrimination motivated by racism and discrimination motivated by profit. It is the act that society is concerned with, and so it is discrimination which we legislate against and not racism.

In other words, I don't think that I disagree that we ought to treat people according to their behavior. Nonetheless, strictly speaking, a discriminating landlord may not be racist.





Good point, I was mistaken in believing that "-ism" always related to belief or theory. But, racism is nonetheless about one's beliefs, prejudices, etc., and only derivatively about action. The profit-driven discriminatory landlord is a bad person, but he is not a racist unless he holds racist beliefs.

ETA: Seems that the second definition of racism from WordNet is different than the definition I had in mind.

1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically
superior to members of other races
2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another
race [syn: racism, racialism, racial discrimination]

Clearly, I had definition (1) in mind, but definition (2) is completely consistent with calling our landlord racist.

I wonder is someone who apologizes for and excuses racism does so because they're racist or because it sexually excites them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How would you know Trump is friendly with just one black person. Hershel Walker, Don King, others would dispute that.

Serious question: What evidence is there that supports Trump being an overt racist.

ETA - If you're talking about a racist attitude towards Hispanics that's understandable though I don't happen to really agree. I think Trump is more of an elitist than a racist.

The proverbial 'one black friend' is a figure of speech. It could be 20, it's still the same thing, he's a racist and thinks the fact he's friends with a few blacks means he isn't.

It's not only elitism, it's racism and bigotry going back to his refusal to rent to blacks decades ago to his attitude toward groups of people today. I doubt the judge of Mexican heritage he railed against was poor riff-raff.

 

[acbytesla]

Trump is blowing the dog whistle.

Who are the dogs that come running when he whistles?

How would he get into office, if not for those dogs?

Granted, but the dogs are in the grandstand and not in the fight.

Their master is.

 

[phiwum]

I wonder is someone who apologizes for and excuses racism does so because they're racist or because it sexually excites them.

I wonder if you think I'm apologizing for or excusing racism.

Because I don't think I am. Rather, we were discussing the appropriateness of calling Trump a racist. I think he's likely racist in terms of Definition (1) above and I think he's definitely racist in terms of Definition (2).

Anyway, don't be coy. If you want to accuse me of racism, do so explicitly.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Serious question: What evidence is there that supports Trump being an overt racist.

It's anecdotal, but: Former Miss Teen USA: I Was Told ‘Trump Doesn’t Like Black People’

...I was forewarned prior to meeting him that, “Mr. Trump doesn’t like black people. So don’t take it...”

“...the wrong way if he isn’t extremely welcoming towards you. If he is, then u just must be the “type” of black he likes.”

Sure enough after I was warned about him, I saw him in action&witnessed him completely snub a black contestant at Miss Universe rehearsals..

While she was practicing on stage. Literally turned his back to the stage and made a face like he was going to vomit at the sight of her.​

 

[newyorkguy]

I can agree Trump is egotistical, an elitist, a con artist at heart, very superficial with little in the way of character a sexual predator. I don't really see evidence he's racist towards blacks. You said the evidence supports that. What is the evidence?

 

[acbytesla]

How would you know Trump is friendly with just one black person. Hershel Walker, Don King, others would dispute that.

Serious question: What evidence is there that supports Trump being an overt racist.

ETA - If you're talking about a racist attitude towards Hispanics that's understandable though I don't happen to really agree. I think Trump is more of an elitist than a racist.

Overt? No, Covert? Most definitely. While I agree with your premise that Trump is more of an elitist than a racist, that does not make him less of a racist. By one's deeds and actions ye shall be known.

 

[newyorkguy]

It's anecdotal, but: Former Miss Teen USA: I Was Told ‘Trump Doesn’t Like Black People’

...I was forewarned prior to meeting him that, “Mr. Trump doesn’t like black people. So don’t take it...” “...the wrong way if he isn’t extremely welcoming towards you. If he is, then u just must be the “type” of black he likes.” Sure enough after I was warned about him, I saw him in action&witnessed him completely snub a black contestant at Miss Universe rehearsals.. While she was practicing on stage. Literally turned his back to the stage and made a face like he was going to vomit at the sight of her.​

What does this mean, he's semi-racist, sometimes racist? Look at the rest of Kamie Crawford's tweets:

• Luckily for me - I was the "type" of black he liked. He toted me around his buddies who were all there gawking at the Miss Universe girls.
• Bragged about how "beautiful" and "well spoken" I was. "She's so smart, look how smart she is" he kept saying. Mind u, baby boy just met me

Sounds like Trump liked Kamie. (She refers to him as 'my boss," was The Don employing her?) But was very rude towards a contestant he didn't "like." I think most of the guys here know what 'mock gagging' means. It has little to do with race.

 

[dudalb]

How would you know Trump is friendly with just one black person. Hershel Walker, Don King, others would dispute that.

Serious question: What evidence is there that supports Trump being an overt racist.

ETA - If you're talking about a racist attitude towards Hispanics that's understandable though I don't happen to really agree. I think Trump is more of an elitist than a racist.

Althought that TRump is buddies with a murderer like Don King and a thug like Mike Tyson is proof that he is a terrible judge of people.....

 

[Minoosh]

There is another possibility. Despite your previous comments, I think a decent, thoughtful person can honestly believe that abortion is murder and hence that voting for a pro-choice candidate is akin to sanctioning murder.

Maybe, but if they are part of the mainstream right-to-life movement they don't think it's murder. I'm basing on this on Kellyanne Conway being a mainstream right to lifer. She's quoted in the New Yorker as cringing when Trump said women who had abortions should be punished. She said the RTL message was never that women should be punished. What's the logic for this? The woman instigates the procedure and (generally) provides the funds. She's a contract killer. IMO you can't have it both ways. Either it's murder and she's just as guilty if not more guilty than the doctor, or it's not.

I don't know if it was in this thread but there was a heartbreaking link to an article about late-term abortion. The fetus was not going to be viable, ever, while carrying to term did endanger the woman's life. The fetus wasn't ripped limb-to-limb. Its heart was stopped with an injection and the woman later endured an agonizing induced labor. The epidural wasn't working and it wasn't clear why. Before she learned of the fetus' impossible odds she had done everything she possibly could to have a healthy pregnancy.

I'm not sure of the theory behind the pro-choice strategy of not educating the public better about the need - yes, the need - for some late-term abortions. Reading that article was an eye-opener for me.

Single-issue voters are obsessed and IMO obsessions are never really about what they seem to be about. That's just my wacky personal theory, I don't have evidence.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I can agree Trump is egotistical, an elitist, a con artist at heart, very superficial with little in the way of character a sexual predator. I don't really see evidence he's racist towards blacks. You said the evidence supports that. What is the evidence?

Seriously? It's blatant and the fact you can't see it only says you aren't looking because if you were serious about wanting to know, a quick Google would find those examples you claim to have not seen.

Here Are [12] Examples Of Donald Trump Being Racist

He claimed a judge was biased because “he’s a Mexican”

The Justice Department sued his company ― twice ― for not renting to black people

In fact, discrimination against black people has been a pattern in his career - The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.
The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.

He refused to condemn the white supremacists who are campaigning for him

He questions whether President Obama was born in the United States [maybe you are oblivious to the racism of the birther movement]

He treats racial groups as monoliths

He trashed Native Americans, too - In 1993, when Trump wanted to open a casino in Bridgeport, Connecticut, that would compete with one owned by the Mashantucket Pequot Nation, a local Native American tribe, he told the House subcommittee on Native American Affairs that “they don’t look like Indians to me... They don’t look like Indians to Indians.”

He encouraged the mob justice that resulted in the wrongful imprisonment of the Central Park Five [maybe you don't think that was frank racism either]

He condoned the beating of a Black Lives Matter protester

He called supporters who beat up a homeless Latino man “passionate”

He stereotyped Jews and shared an anti-Semitic meme created by white supremacists

He treats African-American supporters as tokens to dispel the idea he is racist

Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2016

But when you take all of Trump’s actions and comments together, a clear pattern emerges — one that suggests that bigotry is not just campaign opportunism on Trump’s part but a real element of Trump’s personality, character, and career.

The evidence is abundant. The fact you don't believe it or see it says a lot about your confirmation bias.

 

[Minoosh]

Are you suggesting it's America's fault 400,000 people have died? That we should have intervened the way we did in Iraq?

Not directed at me but these are not comparable. We intervened in Iraq to take out a strongman. Almost certainly more Iraqis died than would have if Saddam Hussein had remained a dictator. U.S. policy in Syria isn't and to my knowledge hasn't been in favor of regime change through invasion. We hoped Assad would just go away, like Mubarak. Either way, IMO the U.S. is not responsible for the Syrian deaths. It is responsible for deaths in Iraq in excess of those Saddam would have caused.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, really. Bush justified Iraq with an unsustainable premise, which is that it is a U.S. duty to take out heads of state with WMD programs.

Anyway I've reached pretty far off topic.

 

[Garrison]

Single-issue voters are obsessed and IMO obsessions are never really about what they seem to be about. That's just my wacky personal theory, I don't have evidence.

Well for the pro-lifers it's a cheap way to make a moral stand, after all making sure children have decent healthcare, education, and equal opportunities in life is hard and, god forbid, might mean they have to pay more tax. Much better to jump on a bandwagon where you just have to mouth a few slogans.

 

[Garrison]

How would you know Trump is friendly with just one black person. Hershel Walker, Don King, others would dispute that.

Because his racism isn't the 'hate all blacks' variety, it's the type that is perfectly comfortable with blacks so long as they fit into the right pigeonholes. Hence he can be totally fine with a black boxer, Tyson fits neatly into a stereotype, but a black president? Well that's out of line.

 

[varwoche]

I think that racism is about one's beliefs regarding (intrinsic) properties of the races.

If I believe that it is profitable to discriminate because those around me are racist, and I do so on that basis, I don't think I'm a racist. I'm certainly not a good person, of course, because I'm profiting by mistreating minorities, but I don't see that as racist.

Racism is about beliefs and opinions primarily, and behavior is only a crude way of determining beliefs and opinions.

We don't have the ability to divine beliefs. All we know are words and actions. Idle conjecture about the inner-workings of a person's brain (much less the twisted realm of Trump's brain) lies on a path to madness.

 

[Minoosh]

We don't have the ability to divine beliefs. All we know are words and actions. Idle conjecture about the inner-workings of a person's brain (much less the twisted realm of Trump's brain) lies on a path to madness.

What makes you think Trump's brain has any inner workings?

ETA: A glimpse of his stream-of-consciousness would be interesting. The Washington Post was able to make out a few words on his debate notes. Disappointingly, they did not consist of "wrong, wrong, wrong, nasty woman, wrong, I wouldn't hit that, I would hit that."

 

[Ladewig]

7. He's a sexist. In fact, he's an abominable sexist. I've never seen anyone in the last 40 years treat woman worse.

I'd really like to see what would happen I feel no interviewer said to him, "I feel the press hasn't let you tell your side of the respecting-women issue. Would you take a moment to describe what actions you have taken and what beliefs you hold that illustrate your great respect for women?" I have absolutely no idea what he would say, but I am pretty confident that it would be frighteningly out-of-touch and bizarre. After all, we are talking about a guy who referenced is real estate empire when answering a question about what he thought of God.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'd really like to see what would happen I feel no interviewer said to him, "I feel the press hasn't let you tell your side of the respecting-women issue. Would you take a moment to describe what actions you have taken and what beliefs you hold that illustrate your great respect for women?" I have absolutely no idea what he would say, but I am pretty confident that it would be frighteningly out-of-touch and bizarre. After all, we are talking about a guy who referenced is real estate empire when answering a question about what he thought of God.

It's easy, he'd say what he always says, "no one respects women more than I do."