Merged Remember the West Memphis 3?

[kali1137]

I said that I did my research quite a long time ago. I don't remember enough detail to make a legit stand against it at this point. I also don't have the time nor the inclination to go back over it all now. It has already run it's course. You seem to really want an argument over this. I simply don't have the desire at this point to go back through, what I remember to be a lot, of case information. I simply made a statement of my opinion on it. I didn't state I absolutely knew anything. If you want to infer from that I am inferior to you because we think differently and I don't feel the need to argue my stand point with you, then I guess I am the stupid one.

 

[Desert Fox]

I said that I did my research quite a long time ago. I don't remember enough detail to make a legit stand against it at this point. I also don't have the time nor the inclination to go back over it all now. It has already run it's course. You seem to really want an argument over this. I simply don't have the desire at this point to go back through, what I remember to be a lot, of case information. I simply made a statement of my opinion on it. I didn't state I absolutely knew anything. If you want to infer from that I am inferior to you because we think differently and I don't feel the need to argue my stand point with you, then I guess I am the stupid one.

Seriously, if somebody has a legitimate reason they can argue for their guilt, I would like to see it.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I don't think Kali was going that far, just still had doubts. I don't really see any reasonable doubts, but no need to take her (him?) over the coals about it

 

[Desert Fox]

I don't think Kali was going that far, just still had doubts. I don't really see any reasonable doubts, but no need to take her (him?) over the coals about it

I guess I also see it as a reversal of the burden of proof.

 

[kali1137]

I don't think Kali was going that far, just still had doubts. I don't really see any reasonable doubts, but no need to take her (him?) over the coals about it

Her, and thank you! I never came on here and said, oh they are guilty as sin. Just that I am not as convinced as others about two of the three. I lean neither one way or the other and the case doesn't interest me as much any more seeing as how what is done is done. I haven't read or researched anything on them in years, thus I cannot back up any statement I would make beyond simply my thoughts/opinions on the subject. I am glad that people get super emotional about cases and want to make sure justice is done. But other opinions are going to happen from time to time.

 

[Desert Fox]

Her, and thank you! I never came on here and said, oh they are guilty as sin. Just that I am not as convinced as others about two of the three. I lean neither one way or the other and the case doesn't interest me as much any more seeing as how what is done is done. I haven't read or researched anything on them in years, thus I cannot back up any statement I would make beyond simply my thoughts/opinions on the subject. I am glad that people get super emotional about cases and want to make sure justice is done. But other opinions are going to happen from time to time.

The case I really get emotional about is the Norfolk Four actually.

 

[Strawberry]

Seriously, if somebody has a legitimate reason they can argue for their guilt, I would like to see it.

In my lengthy experience of arguing with nons in the WM3 case, their arguments for guilt are based on two things...

1) Jessie's confession
2) Exhibit 500

There are overly ambitious, or possibly overly naive, nons who try and work in such things as the whiskey bottle, the pendant or the alibis (or lack of), but largely their perception of guilt boils down to - Jessie confessed and Damien was a bad egg.

Interestingly, I've yet to meet a non who isn't embarrassed by the whole Satanic thing, even though that's what underpinned the case for the prosecution at both trials.

 

[Lerxst]

In my lengthy experience of arguing with nons in the WM3 case, their arguments for guilt are based on two things...

1) Jessie's confession
2) Exhibit 500

There are overly ambitious, or possibly overly naive, nons who try and work in such things as the whiskey bottle, the pendant or the alibis (or lack of), but largely their perception of guilt boils down to - Jessie confessed and Damien was a bad egg.

Interestingly, I've yet to meet a non who isn't embarrassed by the whole Satanic thing, even though that's what underpinned the case for the prosecution at both trials.

That's been my experience as well. I lurked for many years on both message boards and saw things develop in that time. I remember when Mark Byers changed his mind from a non to a supporter, and the focus on Terry Hobbs. Vicki Hutcheson admitting she made up the whole story about Echols bragging about the murders at the "cult meeting". The DNA testing that excluded all three suspects... At that point the nons could only hold on to the confession and that Damien seemed like the kid of guy who could have done it.

 

[Strawberry]

That's been my experience as well. I lurked for many years on both message boards and saw things develop in that time. I remember when Mark Byers changed his mind from a non to a supporter, and the focus on Terry Hobbs. Vicki Hutcheson admitting she made up the whole story about Echols bragging about the murders at the "cult meeting". The DNA testing that excluded all three suspects... At that point the nons could only hold on to the confession and that Damien seemed like the kid of guy who could have done it.

Pretty much.

In the interest of accuracy, I should have said in my post above that nons rely on Jessie's confessions, not confession. They, in my experience universally, see the fact that his confession was repeated as an insurmountable smoking gun.

 

[Samson]

Watching the movie West of Memphis it is stunning to see the prosecutor produce a weapon in court, and despite knowing it was thrown in the lake a year before the murders, claim it was the knife used. He had the media and photographers on hand to record the murder weapon being trawled from the deeps, yet knew he was fabricating in cold blood.
Fogleman.

 

[John Jones]

Watching the movie West of Memphis it is stunning to see the prosecutor produce a weapon in court, and despite knowing it was thrown in the lake a year before the murders, claim it was the knife used. He had the media and photographers on hand to record the murder weapon being trawled from the deeps, yet knew he was fabricating in cold blood.
Fogleman.

I don't recall that the knife was known to have been thrown in that lake a year earlier, but I know they never connected the knife to the WM3 or to the murders.

 

[Samson]

I don't recall that the knife was known to have been thrown in that lake a year earlier, but I know they never connected the knife to the WM3 or to the murders.

Rereading the thread it appears you watched West of Memphis, the film seems to prove Terry Hobbs killed the boys alone, and the other guy David became a tortured alibi for years, finally telling the whole tale. Terry Hobbs confessed to his brother.
Fogleman knew the knife was thrown in the lake a year before the murders, and so on. This case is first equal in treachery with many others I am watching.
Steven Avery, Mark Lundy, David Tamihere, the list goes on.
Jack Daniel McCullough who was released recently because he was exonerated of Maria Riddulph's murder is another. The judge ruled as hearsay his bulletproof alibi in one of the worst judicial events.

However, I am yet to find a case where police and prosecutors have not been proven to have lied, introduced evidence they know to be false, on the path to getting innocents behind bars.
I believe it can probably be shown lying is always needed.

 

[Samson]

Schrodinger's Cat,

The HBO documentary Paradise Lost might have been part of it. From what I recall reading, the documentarians went there to do a "what is wrong with today's youth" story, and IMO they ended up with a "what is wrong with today's adults" story.

I have been catching up with the saga in detail, so this olde post deserves the bump of a life time. Thanks Chris.

 

[John Jones]

Rereading the thread it appears you watched West of Memphis, the film seems to prove Terry Hobbs killed the boys alone, and the other guy David became a tortured alibi for years, finally telling the whole tale. Terry Hobbs confessed to his brother.
Fogleman knew the knife was thrown in the lake a year before the murders, and so on. This case is first equal in treachery with many others I am watching.
Steven Avery, Mark Lundy, David Tamihere, the list goes on.
Jack Daniel McCullough who was released recently because he was exonerated of Maria Riddulph's murder is another. The judge ruled as hearsay his bulletproof alibi in one of the worst judicial events.

However, I am yet to find a case where police and prosecutors have not been proven to have lied, introduced evidence they know to be false, on the path to getting innocents behind bars.
I believe it can probably be shown lying is always needed.

I lived in the area at the time of the murders. That cop Gary Gitchell quit the West Memphis PD and took a job as head of security for the school system my daughters attended. I told them to never say anything to him, and to call me if they ever crossed paths.

 

[Samson]

I lived in the area at the time of the murders. That cop Gary Gitchell quit the West Memphis PD and took a job as head of security for the school system my daughters attended. I told them to never say anything to him, and to call me if they ever crossed paths.

A case for the connoisseur. It really does have everything, corruption to the rotten core. Judge David Burnett seems to have acted with malice at every step.

Watch this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEp9pWNxAl0&feature=youtu.be&t=1h23m32s

It seems to go like this.
Carson's youth counselor tells Carson the details of the crime Jason is accused of.
Carson later tells the counselor Jason confessed to him and he will testify at trial.
The counselor calls defense attorney and says Carson is a liar.
The defence try to call the counselor as a witness, Judge Burnett refuses, so the liar gets to testify, unchallenged by a reliable professional.

 

[Desert Fox]

A case for the connoisseur. It really does have everything, corruption to the rotten core. Judge David Burnett seems to have acted with malice at every step.

Watch this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEp9pWNxAl0&feature=youtu.be&t=1h23m32s

It seems to go like this.
Carson's youth counselor tells Carson the details of the crime Jason is accused of.
Carson later tells the counselor Jason confessed to him and he will testify at trial.
The counselor calls defense attorney and says Carson is a liar.
The defence try to call the counselor as a witness, Judge Burnett refuses, so the liar gets to testify, unchallenged by a reliable professional.

Calling Burnett a judge is bad comedy. . . .One of his expert witnesses was a n expert at satanic cults who got his degree through a diploma mill. On the other side, he would not let an actual expert at false confessions speak effectively at all.

 

[John Jones]

Calling Burnett a judge is bad comedy. . . .One of his expert witnesses was a n expert at satanic cults who got his degree through a diploma mill. On the other side, he would not let an actual expert at false confessions speak effectively at all.

That 'expert' was a clown. He testified that presence of blood was sign of a satanic ritual. He later said that the victims blood would be collected and saved by the satanists for use in later rituals, so the absence of blood was also proof of satanic ritual.

There was no blood collected at the scene.

 

[Samzilla]

wasn't the same "satanic" bs rolled out at the cameron todd willingham trial because he had, gasp, iron maiden posters!

 

[John Jones]

wasn't the same "satanic" bs rolled out at the cameron todd willingham trial because he had, gasp, iron maiden posters!

in this case, it was a Metallica poster and a stack of black tee shirts. Yes, they entered a stack of t-shirts as evidence of satanic rituals

 

[Samson]

in this case, it was a Metallica poster and a stack of black tee shirts. Yes, they entered a stack of t-shirts as evidence of satanic rituals

And the trial was relived by Andy Sixx and Black Veil Brides.
The kids played this till the intro was etched in my mind.

My surprise to hear the provenance from Paradise Lost, prosecutor Fogleman and mail order doctor......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDCHdKbKBY