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Merged Remember the West Memphis 3?

acbytesla said:
In 2007, DNA collected from the crime scene was tested. None was found to match DNA from Echols, Baldwin, or Misskelley.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three
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More about Echols
On October 29, 2007, papers were filed in federal court by Echols's defense lawyers seeking a retrial or his immediate release from prison. The filing cited DNA evidence linking Terry Hobbs (stepfather of one of the victims) to the crime scene, and new statements from Hobbs' now ex-wife. Also presented in the filing was new expert testimony that the supposed knife marks on the victims, including the injuries to Byers' genitals, were in fact the result of animal predation after the bodies had been dumped. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three
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acbytesla said:
Jive puppi? You cant be serious? This is not a credible source. It's a Nutjob site like PMF. Try again.
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Serious question. Do you by any chance dance 'skyclad' around bonfires in the moonlight whilst chanting the Lord's Prayer backwards?

Echols and Baldwin regularly met to have demonic meetings which involved torturing dogs, skinning them alive and eating a piece of their leg raw as an initiation rite. Echols would hold forth claiming to be conversing with the Wicked One.

You support people who torture dogs and are proud of it.

Who is the nutjob?
 
Vixen wants to turn this into a proxy case about the WM3 because it's easier than trying to say the burglar covered in blood with knife wounds on his hands is innocent (her actual belief).
 
acbytesla said:
More about Echols
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It appears to have been a pretty roughneck 'trailer park' community.

The men are petty criminals and drug dealers. Hobbs is not a very nice character. Neither is Byers.

However, it is interesting that just like Knox/Sollecito and Avery/Dassey, Echols' defence decided to make a 'documentary' and cleverly pointed to an 'alternative killer'. First Echols said it was Byers. Then he settled for Hobbs.

One guy overpowering three boys all in one go? And adding strange ritualistic marks to the bodies, such as melted blue candle wax stains.

<fx Brummie accent: Yes, mate!>
 
Vixen said:
Serious question. Do you by any chance dance 'skyclad' around bonfires in the moonlight whilst chanting the Lord's Prayer backwards?

Echols and Baldwin regularly met to have demonic meetings which involved torturing dogs, skinning them alive and eating a piece of their leg raw as an initiation rite. Echols would hold forth claiming to be conversing with the Wicked One.
You support people who torture dogs and are proud of it.

Who is the nutjob?
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You have given no evidence of this whatsoever. Citation? And please, not livepuppi. I mean a credible source.

I'd answer your last question but it's against ISF rules.
 
Vixen said:
You don't think it's true those three 8-year olds were cruelly and sadistically tied up, mutilated, raped and murdered?
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Raped is questionable. But I don't think there is very good evidence against anyone. One of the kids father or stepfather actually seems more likely than the West Memphis three. But just because because the the kids died a horrible death does not mean that the case against the suspects must not be proven.
 
acbytesla said:
Raped is questionable. But I don't think there is very good evidence against anyone. One of the kids father or stepfather actually seems more likely than the West Memphis three. But just because because the the kids died a horrible death does not mean that the case against the suspects must not be proven.
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Misskelley confessed. His confession was broadly accurate. Eye witnesses saw Baldwin and Echols walking from the scene. All three had fake alibis (evidence in itself), as did Knox/Sollecito. All three failed polygraphs, as to their involvement in the crime.

Echols knew the boys were urinated on into their mouths before even the pathologists discovered it in their stomachs. He knew about the castration.

Neither had been disseminated to the public. The prosecution proved that Echols could not have got this information from the newpapers.

Like Knox, he just could not resist bragging he had insider knowledge of the crimes.

Misskelley knew the boys had been smashed over the head (indeed he smashed Michael Moore over the head, himself). He saw them struggling in the water. He knew which one of the boys was castrated ('the blond one').

Blue candle wax...

Wake up!

ETA Echols claimed the poor boy's genitals had been chewed off by animals, such as turtles. Police drained the swamp. There were no turtles.
 
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Vixen said:
Misskelley confessed. His confession was broadly accurate. Eye witnesses saw Baldwin and Echols walking from the scene. All three had fake alibis (evidence in itself), as did Knox/Sollecito. All three failed polygraphs, as to their involvement in the crime.

Echols knew the boys were urinated on into their mouths before even the pathologists discovered it in their stomachs. He knew about the castration.

Neither had been disseminated to the public. The prosecution proved that Echols could not have got this information from the newpapers.

Like Knox, he just could not resist bragging he had insider knowledge of the crimes.

Misskelley knew the boys had been smashed over the head (indeed he smashed Michael Moore over the head, himself). He saw them struggling in the water. He knew which one of the boys was castrated ('the blond one).

Blue candle wax...

Wake up!
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I believe this is the thread you are looking for:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217142
 
Vixen said:
It appears to have been a pretty roughneck 'trailer park' community.

The men are petty criminals and drug dealers. Hobbs is not a very nice character. Neither is Byers.

However, it is interesting that just like Knox/Sollecito and Avery/Dassey, Echols' defence decided to make a 'documentary' and cleverly pointed to an 'alternative killer'. First Echols said it was Byers. Then he settled for Hobbs.

One guy overpowering three boys all in one go? And adding strange ritualistic marks to the bodies, such as melted blue candle wax stains.<fx Brummie accent: Yes, mate!>
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Let's take a closer look at this "blue candle wax" bit. This is from your own link:

There were two pieces of physical evidence cited by the jury: the fibers (previously discussed) and "wax on book, shirt."

According to the state crime lab expert, Lisa Sakevicius, "On the item, my E-2 item, which was a [victim's] shirt, I did find a blue wax." [Sakevicius testimony, Echols/Baldwin trial] Among items seized from Echols trailer during the execution of the search warrant was a book with some candle wax, the title, "Never on a Broomstick."
Out of the presence of the jury, the defense asked why they hadn't received any reports about wax.


Scott Davidson: Your Honor, we'd also request a copy of the report of Lisa Sakevicius - if there is one - regarding any candle wax.
Fogleman: I don't know if there is one. She said that what she puts in her report is when there are matches. She claimed that didn't match anything. [Bench conference, Echols/Baldwin trial]
In his closing statement, the prosecution argued the wax's presence was a sign of Satanic ritual. Furthermore, even though the prosecution had previously stated that Sakevicius had declared the waxes did not match and that was why the defense was not provided with a report, the prosecution argued the waxes from the shirt and book could be matches.

Remember this book that just comes from the library? See all this stain on the back of it? You all go back there and look a that and kindly tilt it in the light and look and it, and see if that isn't blue wax to you. See if that doesn't look like some blue wax to you. [snip] Well, we got one of the boys' shirts that had that blue wax on his shirt. . . [Davis, closing arguments, Echols/Baldwin trial]
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Hilite 1: The alleged wax found on the book in Echol's room was red, not blue
(The Blood of Innocents.Guy Reel, Marc Perrusquia, Bartholemew Sullivan pg 185)

Hilite 2: You claimed earlier that the wax "matched exactly". Not according to the expert, Sakevikius they didn't.
 
Vixen said:
Misskelley confessed. His confession was broadly accurate. Eye witnesses saw Baldwin and Echols walking from the scene. All three had fake alibis (evidence in itself), as did Knox/Sollecito. All three failed polygraphs, as to their involvement in the crime.

Echols knew the boys were urinated on into their mouths before even the pathologists discovered it in their stomachs. He knew about the castration.

Neither had been disseminated to the public. The prosecution proved that Echols could not have got this information from the newpapers.

Like Knox, he just could not resist bragging he had insider knowledge of the crimes.

Misskelley knew the boys had been smashed over the head (indeed he smashed Michael Moore over the head, himself). He saw them struggling in the water. He knew which one of the boys was castrated ('the blond one').

Blue candle wax...

Wake up!
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No, you wake up. There are many details of that case in dispute. But this thread isn't the place to go over every detail that you got wrong. Try another thread. This one is about the Kercher case.
 
Stacyhs said:
Let's take a closer look at this "blue candle wax" bit. This is from your own link:



Hilite 1: The alleged wax found on the book in Echol's room was red, not blue
(The Blood of Innocents.Guy Reel, Marc Perrusquia, Bartholemew Sullivan pg 185)

Hilite 2: You claimed earlier that the wax "matched exactly". Not according to the expert, Sakevikius they didn't.
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The blue candle was found in Echols' girlfriend's house. Pay attention.
 
Vixen said:
The blue candle was found in Echols' girlfriend's house. Pay attention.
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Apparently, you're not paying attention as there never was a match according to the techs. But enough of the West Memphis Three. Again, this is the Kercher thread. Another case you are wrong about all the details.
 
Vixen said:
Pay attention.
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Jessie Misskelley is not a credible witness.

The confessor, Jessie Misskelley, has an IQ of 70. That's right on the border of mental retardation. His confession came after 12 hours of continuous interrogation.
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(Psychology Today, Aug 23, 2011, Keith Payne Ph.D.)

Here is the transcript of the interrogation where Misskelley mentions eating a dog. With a low IQ and being a teenager, he is highly suggestible.
GITCHELL: Is that when you first saw the pictures of the boys?

JESSIE: yes, out there in Lakeshore

GITCHELL: And you saw the pictures in the briefcase?

JESSIE: Yes, I think when we had that cult.

GITCHELL: okay, now you have participated in this cult, right?

JESSIE: Yes

GITCHELL: How long have you been involved in it?

JESSIE: I've been in it for about three months.

GITCHELL: Okay, what is, tell me some of the things that you all do typically in the woods, in being in this cult.

JESSIE: We go out kill dogs and stuff and then carry girls out there. GITCHELL: What do you all do with the girls when you're out there? JESSIE: We screw them and stuff GITCHELL: Does just everybody takes a turn JESSIE: Everybody, and we have an orgee and stuff like that.GITCHELL: okay

RIDGE: when you kill a dog, what do you do with that?

JESSIE: We usually skin it, then make a bon fire and eat it and stuff

RIDGE: okay, when you initiating somebody new come into a cult what actually is done to initiate that person into a cult?

JESSIE: We usually you know, kill an animals, you know, so you have to know how to handle the meat and stuff, after we kill it to see if he knows, if he can't handle it, then he don't get in.

RIDGE: Okay, so he kills an animal, you mentioned earlier that he may have to eat part of that animal, what part of the animal would he eat?

JESSIE: Uh, the meat off of his leg.

RIDGE: Meat off of his leg.

JESSIE: If he can't eat it, then he don't get in.

RIDGE: Doesn't get into the club?

JESSIE: No

RIDGE: Now these meetings, have they ever been violent, anybody gotten mad and got into a fight?

JESSIE: No
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Hilite1: You really think they took girls out there and had orgies? REALLY? He doesn't even sound plausible. He sounds like a mentally challenged guy trying to please the police and just making crap up.
 
Vixen said:
The blue candle was found in Echols' girlfriend's house. Pay attention.
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Sigh. The wax allegedly found on the BOOK is what the prosecutor brought up in his closing arguments. Once more for you to read slowly:

Remember this book that just comes from the library? See all this stain on the back of it? You all go back there and look a that and kindly tilt it in the light and look and it, and see if that isn't blue wax to you. See if that doesn't look like some blue wax to you. [snip] Well, we got one of the boys' shirts that had that blue wax on his shirt. . . [Davis, closing arguments, Echols/Baldwin trial]
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As I said, the alleged wax on the book was RED not BLUE. And who cares that his girlfriend had a freaking blue candle at her house? Do you think blue candles are some kind of rarity? Hell, I have blue candles in my house. What is important, that you somehow fail to register, is that THERE WAS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT THE WAX MATCHED ACCORDING TO THE EXPERT despite your earlier false claim that they matched exactly.

Pay attention.
 
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I had written a lengthy rebuttal to Vixen's claims about the WM3 case including testimony, etc but it did not post due to time running out and I lost it all. For anyone who is interested in the facts of the case from an unbiased source that gives an intriguing view of the case, read this:
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=3039

One thing that is made very clear in researching this case is that the local police had no idea what they were doing. They had much in common with the Perugia police. I was amazed how much in common the WM3 and the Kercher case had as far as police screw ups, unrecorded, lawyer-less interrogations, lost evidence, etc.
 
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